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Post by Death on Mar 19, 2009 13:39:32 GMT -5
I used to believe the same thing, but I'm rather inclined to ask - why not? You'll forgive me if my knowledge of Mormon doctrine isn't perfect, but they do believe that Jesus came to Earth to die for our sins and thus bring salvation. This is pretty much the minimum requirement to be a Christian as far as I'm concerned. As far as weirder... again I don't know. I think most mainstream Christians are more apostate and thus don't engage in some of the more bizarre strictures of the religion, but then the girl Lady Renae described doesn't sound unlike a few more conservative xians I've known in my time. Don't get me wrong, Mormon theology and practice is evidently different from the Christianity I was raised in (Lutheranism), but that doesn't make it necessarily unchristian. Catholicism and deliverance pentacostalism (i.e. exorcisms) are also both very different from Lutheranism in many ways. I'd say the criterion to be a Christian is a belief in Christ, and the Mormons seem to fit that. They don't follow the Nicene Creed.
If you want to go the believe in christ as the determinant then Islam is xian too. In fact Islam believes in three and half out of four of the Nicene doctrines, Mormonism only one.
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Post by Julian on Mar 19, 2009 13:40:48 GMT -5
It's not christian and it is weirder, a lot weirder. As far as weirder... again I don't know. I think most mainstream Christians are more apostate and thus don't engage in some of the more bizarre strictures of the religion, but then the girl Lady Renae described doesn't sound unlike a few more conservative xians I've known in my time. She didn't say mormons are weirder, she said mormonism is weirder. Watch a few of the links, it's only scratching the surface.
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Post by antichrist on Mar 19, 2009 13:43:10 GMT -5
Again, I don't think Mormonism is any weirder than any other form of Christianity. It's not christian and it is weirder, a lot weirder. The second video up there talks about Demons showing themselves to Mormons thanking them for the baptism. Seriously Demons? I was in the Mormon church for 2 years, I've also been in Baptist, and in what ever the hell Pat Robertson is. Out of the three, I found the Pat Robertson bullshit the weirdest. I should also mention that I agree with the South Park creators that there are a lot of Mormons out there who don't take the shit too seriously. It works for them.
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Post by nausea on Mar 19, 2009 13:45:17 GMT -5
While Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet of Allah, I had thought the Mormons believed he died on a cross for the sins of humankind, which would be the primary foundation of Christianity as followers of Christ.
Also... quote attribution is not too easy here...
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Post by nausea on Mar 19, 2009 13:52:52 GMT -5
I'd be interested to see what you'd get if you just looked at what Christianity stands for though as opposed to what Christians generally believe.
Believe me, I watched the links and I find the Mormon religion bizarre - space Gods on Korah and whatever. But, Hell, modern Christianity teaches that your consciousness gets transmuted to an alternate dimension when you die for eternal reward or punishment so long as you telepathically or verbally inform an omnipresent entity that you're sorry for various slights you've committed against It and engage in ritual cannibalism on a weekly basis. Of course that's putting an unpleasant slant on Christian belief but the point is you can do it with nearly all religions. I mean, hell, that's why you have FSTDT in the first place, eh?
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Post by antichrist on Mar 19, 2009 13:55:06 GMT -5
@ nausea
According to the fundies it's not just your consciousness. Remember all the bodies are going to be taken out of their graves, and people are going to disappear out of their clothing.
Then there's the Catholic church...
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Post by schizophonic on Mar 19, 2009 14:14:21 GMT -5
Again, I don't think Mormonism is any weirder than any other form of Christianity. I'm torn on that. Christianity is pretty ridiculous in and of itself, but the main reason groups like Scientologists and Mormons are mocked is that they weren't founded in ancient times where superstitious people bred and carried on with their generational indoctrination. That and claims that are demonstrably false, such as the claim that Natives are a lost tribe of Israel don't help, either. But then again, I'm sure if we could have empirically tested Christ's blood, it would be a similar result. And then we'd have Romans and Jews going "LOL blood of christ" and putting up Youtube vids saying "THIS IS WHAT CHRISTIANS REALLY BELIEVE!"
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Post by nausea on Mar 19, 2009 14:30:32 GMT -5
Indeed, but I wanted to stick with comparatively "sane" mainstream Lutheranism.
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Post by Julian on Mar 19, 2009 14:30:37 GMT -5
I'd be interested to see what you'd get if you just looked at what Christianity stands for though as opposed to what Christians generally believe. Believe me, I watched the links and I find the Mormon religion bizarre - space Gods on Korah and whatever. But, Hell, modern Christianity teaches that your consciousness gets transmuted to an alternate dimension when you die for eternal reward or punishment so long as you telepathically or verbally inform an omnipresent entity that you're sorry for various slights you've committed against It and engage in ritual cannibalism on a weekly basis. Of course that's putting an unpleasant slant on Christian belief but the point is you can do it with nearly all religions. I mean, hell, that's why you have FSTDT in the first place, eh? If you build on something weird, and add a whole pile of different shades of pure crazy to it, it be definition has to be even weirder, unless it was unintentionally and coincidentally getting a few things right, which didn't happen due to the fixations of the author. Therefore it is weirder. It also happens to have far more falsifiable claims stacked into it's premise for existence, so not only is it weirder, but it's also even more physically impossible, and this view is NOT from NOT understanding how impossible and weird Christianity is.
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Post by Thejebusfire on Mar 19, 2009 14:32:12 GMT -5
That South Park episode was pretty epic.
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Post by Oriet on Mar 19, 2009 14:39:28 GMT -5
Again, I don't think Mormonism is any weirder than any other form of Christianity. I'm torn on that. Christianity is pretty ridiculous in and of itself, but the main reason groups like Scientologists and Mormons are mocked is that they weren't founded in ancient times where superstitious people bred and carried on with their generational indoctrination. That and claims that are demonstrably false, such as the claim that Natives are a lost tribe of Israel don't help, either. But then again, I'm sure if we could have empirically tested Christ's blood, it would be a similar result. And then we'd have Romans and Jews going "LOL blood of christ" and putting up Youtube vids saying "THIS IS WHAT CHRISTIANS REALLY BELIEVE!" That's actually a pretty funny image. Especially as I'm envisioning in happening in classical Rome, just with cell phones, computers, and whatnot.
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Post by schizophonic on Mar 19, 2009 15:16:01 GMT -5
A society that hedonistic with cell phones and the internet? Man, that just made my head spin.
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Post by skyfire on Mar 19, 2009 15:39:36 GMT -5
The first two videos come from the movie version of a highly controversial work entitled "The Godmakers." I say controversial as both the book and the movie were so packed with deliberate half-truths and even outright lies that even non-Mormon organizations such as the National Council of Christians and Jews & the Anti-Defamation League of B'Nai B'Rith issued condemnations. In short, the creator of the film, J. Edward Decker, is nothing more than a cross between Fred Phelps and Jack Chick. Decker became Mormon because he wanted to marry a Mormon girl, but when he had trouble holding a steady job he began to blame the church and started using his own personal misfortunes as justification to start sleeping around. His wife dropped the hammer on him, filing for divorce and asking the local bishop to get involved. Decker fled the church, using his divorce as an excuse to hook up with his latest floozy; upon said floozy showing him that there was a market for books critical of the church and that no one was bothering to check facts, Decker decided to make writing his newest employment venture. If he was targeting anyone but Mormons, Decker would have been driven into obscurity by now. If anyone is so inclined, a full-length review and rebuttal of the book is hosted at this site here.
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Post by m52nickerson on Mar 19, 2009 16:09:42 GMT -5
Skyfire, it might help if you also post links to site/articles critizing the "The Godmakees" that are not directly afficiated with the Mormon faith. Like this one from lightplanet. www.lightplanet.com/response/godmaker.htm
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Post by mnstrm on Mar 19, 2009 16:18:34 GMT -5
Actually I would consider Ed Decker pretty obscure anyway, mainly because his primary target seems to be mormonism, which isn't really at the forefront of most people's minds at the best of times.
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