Brit Historian says "whites have become black".

[ltfred]

I've always seen an element of guilt in Powelite-racist views. We were so evil to the darkies in their homes, stealing their stuff, deliberately trashing their economies forever, slaughtering millions of them, and so on, that we can only expect the same treatment back.

This ignores two things- immigrants don't hate the countries they go to, unlike conquerers. Secondly, immigrants hold no power over the society they go to. Usually they are an underclass, not an aristocracy.

[booley]

....Why am I surprised that these young people behave destructively, "mindlessly", motivated only by self-interest? How should we describe the actions of the city bankers who brought our economy to its knees in 2010? Altruistic? Mindful? Kind? But then again, they do wear suits, so they deserve to be bailed out, perhaps that's why not one of them has been imprisoned. And they got away with a lot more than a few fucking pairs of trainers.

These young people have no sense of community because they haven't been given one. They have no stake in society because Cameron's mentor Margaret Thatcher told us there's no such thing.

If we don't want our young people to tear apart our communities then don't let people in power tear apart the values that hold our communities together.
.....

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/11/london-riots-davidcameron

We create the world we live in...

[ltfred]

In no sense are these people conservatives.

[TWoozl]

That's traipsing awfully close to No True Scotsman territory, Freddie.

[booley]

Aug 16, 2011 20:54:54 GMT -5 ltfred said:

In no sense are these people conservatives.

Was that in reference to my post or something else?

The placement and lack of context make it hard for me to figure out.

[Amaranth]

Mink Taxes are Onion Feather Bait.

[devilschaplain2]

Lol wut?

[ltfred]

Aug 17, 2011 13:32:38 GMT -5 booley said:

Aug 16, 2011 20:54:54 GMT -5 ltfred said:

In no sense are these people conservatives.

Was that in reference to my post or something else?

Yeah. I think someone who doesn't believe in society cannot be a conservative.

Aug 17, 2011 10:25:32 GMT -5 TWoozl said:

That's traipsing awfully close to No True Scotsman territory, Freddie.

I don't think so. Conservatives believe that you can't do change because radical change will cause social collapse. Tradition is the only thing that keeps people from breaking the rules of society and destroying everything.

[tolpuddlemartyr]

Aug 18, 2011 0:26:37 GMT -5 ltfred said:

Yeah. I think someone who doesn't believe in society cannot be a conservative.

They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation.

Margaret Thatcher 1987

Hm.

[ltfred]

That's exactly my point. Thatcher's views are opposite to those of conservatives (Burke, Oakeshott, Strauss and such). She does not fulfill the common political definition of conservative. She is not a conservative.

[canadian mojo]

Aug 18, 2011 17:09:07 GMT -5 ltfred said:

That's exactly my point. Thatcher's views are opposite to those of conservatives (Burke, Oakeshott, Strauss and such). She does not fulfill the common political definition of conservative. She is not a conservative.

She and her ilk have been considered 'conservatives' since before you were born. She is just not a classical conservative.