Zabimaru
Full Member
Always amused and bemused
Posts: 241
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Post by Zabimaru on May 1, 2009 19:11:54 GMT -5
I'm not much for moralizing about entertainment nor do I like censorship, but even if we are going to be moralizing and censoring I don't understand why so many consider sexual content and bad language to be worse than violence.
I recently had a discussion with someone who gave me a bit of a scary example of this way of thinking.
We were talking about the Fallout-series of video games, and he was complaining about how Fallout 2 had much more (very, very mild) sexual content than the first game. But he also complained about the fact that the game was censored in Europe.
This isn't contradictory, since the censorship in Europe was not about sex. Instead it was about children.
There were children in the games, and since anyone you met could potentially be killed, you could kill children if you really wanted to. Video games where you can kill children aren't allowed in several European countries, so for them to be able to sell it here the children were simply removed.
To be honest, he mostly complained about the fact that this overly simple fix broke some of the gameplay. But he also couldn't understand why European countries found the change necessary - at the same time as he thought that the sexual content wasn't appropriate and shouldn't be in games.
So he thought that some implied sex was something to get upset about, while he couldn't grasp that the possibility to kill children might upset people.
Does anyone have any input on this? Is there any real reason, other than old-fashioned morality, to think that sex in entertainment is more detrimental to people than violence?
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Post by Death on May 1, 2009 19:30:17 GMT -5
I believe if there was MORE sex in games, films, tv, books, in life there'd be less violence in such and less violence in real life too.
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Post by antichrist on May 1, 2009 19:34:19 GMT -5
I don't understand it. My fundie sister won't allow her kids to watch anything with so much as a kiss in it, but at 14 her sons were all allowed to take their firearm courses.
But 2/5 kids were teenage parents, so make your own conclusion.
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Post by schizophonic on May 2, 2009 9:13:21 GMT -5
I think I mentioned this story on the old boards before they died, but my Mom took my 17 year old brother (at the time) to see Sleepy Hollow. remember that one scene where there was, like, heavy petting? In a movie full of blood and beheadings, she was bothered by *that*.
I don't get it.
the only argument I can see with an uncomfortability with sex is that it belongs in the bedroom. But then, violence rarely has a place in civil society--Assuming it ever does.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on May 2, 2009 9:42:23 GMT -5
as far as video games go... maybe it's because it's easier to dismiss the violence as "fantasy" and " fiction", yet the sexual content is harder to dismiss.
...Yeah, why are we so hung up on sexual content anyways?
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Zabimaru
Full Member
Always amused and bemused
Posts: 241
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Post by Zabimaru on May 2, 2009 10:03:08 GMT -5
as far as video games go... maybe it's because it's easier to dismiss the violence as "fantasy" and " fiction", yet the sexual content is harder to dismiss. ...Yeah, why are we so hung up on sexual content anyways? I think that's a good point. Killing people in games, or seeing people being killed in many movies, feels very disjoint from reality. We would (hopefully) never want to kill anyone in real life. But we do have a sexuality and sexual feelings, and that experience makes sex in entertainment feel much more real and tangible than the violence. I guess that the same can be true about violence in war movies for people who have actually been in war, et cetera - their real experience with it making it feel much more connected to reality. I still don't think that sexual content is harmful in any way (except maybe for young children), but thinking about it this way at least makes me understand why people care more about sex than violence.
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Post by peanutfan on May 2, 2009 13:27:41 GMT -5
The only reason I can think of is that we, as a society, actually WANT to prepare people to engage in violence if necessary. Look at the glorification of "hero-cop" movies like the Die Hard series and Bad Boys, as well as almost any war movie. Additionally, many of our favorite sports are violent in nature, such as football and hockey; people get up and cheer when fights start, or even when a player executes a move that happens to be violent. This goes all the way back to the Middle Ages and probably beyond, with the warrior societies throughout history for whom there was no greater honor than dying for God and country.
By contrast, we have it drilled into our heads that sexuality is a bad thing, or if not bad at least private and embarassing if made public. Children are encouraged to seek out jobs and hobbies that are percieved to have a high degree of violence, whereas you almost never hear a young child say "I want to be a porn star when I grow up," and when they do they are quickly shushed and scolded.
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Post by deliciousdemon on May 2, 2009 15:04:48 GMT -5
I believe if there was MORE sex in games, films, tv, books, in life there'd be less violence in such and less violence in real life too. Bonobos would seem to agree. What about sexual violence. How do people feel about video games or films that involve gratuitous sexual violence. Silent Hill or that gay sadomasochism film whose name slips my memory.
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Post by silencesoloud8603 on May 3, 2009 0:28:50 GMT -5
These pro-censorship people actually have a point. Since everyone that's sexually active has AIDS or some other STD, it's important to prevent kids from getting anything that could distract them from putting everything into their military service after they're pressured into enlisting (note: I'm not saying everyone in the military was pressured; I know several people who have made the choice for themselves. It's just that they're so goddamn aggressive in recruiting). We also need to keep them away from naughty language because we don't want to give them ammo to talk back to the drill sergeant, do we?
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Post by antichrist on May 3, 2009 0:32:56 GMT -5
These pro-censorship people actually have a point. Since everyone that's sexually active has AIDS or some other STD, it's important to prevent kids from getting anything that could distract them from putting everything into their military service after they're pressured into enlisting (note: I'm not saying everyone in the military was pressured; I know several people who have made the choice for themselves. It's just that they're so goddamn aggressive in recruiting). We also need to keep them away from naughty language because we don't want to give them ammo to talk back to the drill sergeant, do we? So....... this explains all the steroids in our beef.
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Post by ironbite on May 3, 2009 1:24:42 GMT -5
as far as video games go... maybe it's because it's easier to dismiss the violence as "fantasy" and " fiction", yet the sexual content is harder to dismiss. ...Yeah, why are we so hung up on sexual content anyways? Blame the Puritans, one of the most sexually repressed religious groups of all time. And that's saying something too. They are responsible for a laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarge amount of the hang-ups that we as Americans encounter today that it makes even certain religious cults look sane. Ironbite-if you can't tell...I'm a little pissed off at the Puritans.
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Post by alwimo on May 3, 2009 3:44:45 GMT -5
I think they find sexual content embarrassing or awkward but don't have that problem watching violent content. Sex is more of a taboo than violence but that doesn't mean it's worse.
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13rats
Junior Member
Posts: 91
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Post by 13rats on May 3, 2009 16:01:01 GMT -5
as far as video games go... maybe it's because it's easier to dismiss the violence as "fantasy" and "fiction", yet the sexual content is harder to dismiss. ...Yeah, why are we so hung up on sexual content anyways? I think that's a good point. Killing people in games, or seeing people being killed in many movies, feels very disjoint from reality. We would (hopefully) never want to kill anyone in real life. But we do have a sexuality and sexual feelings, and that experience makes sex in entertainment feel much more real and tangible than the violence. I guess that the same can be true about violence in war movies for people who have actually been in war, et cetera - their real experience with it making it feel much more connected to reality. I still don't think that sexual content is harmful in any way (except maybe for young children), but thinking about it this way at least makes me understand why people care more about sex than violence. For example, I began watching the Lord of the Rings movies when I was 8 and, of course, I saw a ton of Uruk-hai and Orcs being killed, Wargs and their riders ripping people apart, and other violent scenes, but I liked them because of the action and because, in my mind, Orcs and the like have no hold whatsoever on the goings-on of actual life. Pertaining to the second paragraph, I definitely agree and that's probably the main cause (that we all experience something sexual, whereas far less of us experience true violence). When I was 6 or 7 years old, I saw a play with a demon in it and for a long time, I became deathly afraid of demons and I couldn't be in a room with the lights off. If I had to go into one, I would take my mom with me until I turned the lights on. Similarly, if a person, for example, had a bad experience with somebody dressed up as an Orc, the Lord of the Rings movies would scare the crap out of them because they related to the Orcs s more than just characters in books and movies. The only reason I can think of is that we, as a society, actually WANT to prepare people to engage in violence if necessary... This goes all the way back to the Middle Ages and probably beyond, with the warrior societies throughout history for whom there was no greater honor than dying for God and country. Gladiators from the Greek were very similar, except in these cases slaves (and others, probably) were pitted against each other for the sole purpose of tearing each other to shreds. I take part in those who like that sort of thing, albeit at a more moderate level, but I still don't get why.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on May 7, 2009 17:49:48 GMT -5
I think there is an all-important question that needs to be brought up here:
Should there be less blood in "Watchmen," or less of Dr. Manhattan's penis?
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Zabimaru
Full Member
Always amused and bemused
Posts: 241
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Post by Zabimaru on May 7, 2009 18:06:53 GMT -5
I think there is an all-important question that needs to be brought up here: Should there be less blood in "Watchmen," or less of Dr. Manhattan's penis? I recently read something on this forum; it was some gentle words of wisdom that I think that most of us should listen to. It was something along the lines of "Penises for the win!" I find a lot of truth in that, and I wouldn't mind seeing some more of them on screen. I think that could prove beneficial to society as a whole; I think that it could help teach us all to... Ah, fuck it, I just like looking at cocks. As for the actual question, I must admit that I haven't actually seen the movie. But I don't mind blood or penises, or any other naked body parts. I prefer it when the blood and naked people aren't in the same scene though, that usually makes it a lot less enjoyable to me.
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