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Post by syaoranvee on Sept 24, 2011 0:40:50 GMT -5
And funnily enough, that doesn't mean shit when everything you described can still result in an innocent man getting convicted. People call this a "travesty of justice", however, as I've stated this is not true. There was nothing illegal done here, he had appeals, a rehearing, even the execution being stopped several times before hand to relook everything over. The system works. It's innocent until proven guilty, however after you're proven guilty in a court of law, it's the other way around good sir. Neither Troy Davis nor Sylvester Coles deny being at the crime scene that night, what they deny is that they are the murderer and blame it on the other. Obviously, if it's only two people, if evidence points to one over the other, it's rather telling. Not to mention that the victim while on a radio in pursuit of the two, described a person similar to Troy Davis in front of him while a person similar to Coles behind him moments before he was shot in the chest. True, however I'm quite tired of people spouting that he was only convicted because he was a black man when the majority of his jury peers were of the same race! |
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Sept 24, 2011 1:12:52 GMT -5
While I agree that some of the evidence may suggest guilt, none of it is definitive enough to warrant the death penalty. There's simply too much room for error.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Sept 24, 2011 3:25:05 GMT -5
And funnily enough, that doesn't mean shit when everything you described can still result in an innocent man getting convicted. People call this a "travesty of justice", however, as I've stated this is not true. There was nothing illegal done here, he had appeals, a rehearing, even the execution being stopped several times before hand to relook everything over. The system works. It's innocent until proven guilty, however after you're proven guilty in a court of law, it's the other way around good sir. It doesn't have to be illegal to be a travesty of justice, and I am sorry that you cannot see this. And yet those people are clearly reliable while the 7 eyewitnesses out of 9 who admit that they were coerced into IDing Troy Davis are not, huh? ...Because it's impossible for a black man to discriminate against a black man because of his race, because minorities never experience social conditioning from the majority, because you want this man to be guilty. Face it. The evidence against him sucked. The eyewitnesses said that they were coerced. The real killer admitted he was the killer before they made the decision to execute Troy Davis, and the court was well aware of this and chose to do it anyways. And last I checked, eyewitness accounts are not actually reliable in court anyways, which is why evidence is important, and since the evidence itself was not conclusive, the court thus executed an innocent man who, by the killer's own admission, was proven to be innocent and was sentenced to death anyways. Just because the system works doesn't mean it's working right. |
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Post by scotsgit on Sept 24, 2011 5:55:03 GMT -5
I've read this thread twice and can't see anyone displaying that attitude: Care to point out which posts I missed? I never said that people on this thread were doing it. I was talking about popular opinion in the rest of the world. Links? |
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Post by Shane for Wax on Sept 24, 2011 6:01:54 GMT -5
I don't have all the facts on this case. All I know is that I wish that we had had more time to go over everything before we executed a man who could very well have been as innocent as John Coffey in the Green Mile.
Should we have executed him anyways? No. Will we figure out the truth now that he has been executed? Who knows? The truth sometimes comes out after the lights go out.
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Post by erictheblue on Sept 24, 2011 6:06:59 GMT -5
21 years ago it was enough evidence to convict a black man who killed a white cop, the past ain't so rosy as you seem to think it was, just because they convicted him doesn't mean they convicted him because of the evidence. Citation needed. Where is your proof that the evidence was insufficient? Where is your evidence that he was convicted because he was black? However it seems to me that this being the result of the system working as intended is a good reason to change the system. To what? If a jury system is not sufficient for you, what do you want? Man... you almost had me thinking that you truly believed that just because a system followed procedure means that it did the right thing. Hoo. So you also believe Casey Anthony was guilty, even thought she was acquited? After all, she was convicted by the court of public opinion, which obviously knows better than the jury who saw and heard the evidence. And funnily enough, that doesn't mean shit when everything you described can still result in an innocent man getting convicted. And a guilty woman got away with the murder of her daughter. After all, you clearly know more than the jury. Jury didn't think so. That isn't the point. You are making it sound like Davis was convicted by 12 white guys, which is far from reality. You are assuming that the conviction was racially motivated, but you have no evidence of that. You have stated the evidence that convicted him was shakey. Where is your evidence that his conviction and sentence is racially motivated? It doesn't have to be illegal to be a travesty of justice, and I am sorry that you cannot see this. Yup, the Anthony verdict was a travesty. She was SO CLEARLY guilty, everyone knows it. After all, that's what all the talking heads said, and they obviously know better than the people in the courtroom. Where is your proof that they were actually coerced? All I've seen is that they were pressured, but have never seen anyone define "pressue." As I've said before, it could be as simple as the officers saying repeatedly "are you sure this was the man?" To someone who is not used to the criminal justice system, that can seem like a lot of pressure, but the officer's intent is only to ensure the right man is arrested. Can it happen? Yes. Did it happen here? Evidence, please. The evidence against Anthony was pretty overwhelming. I quoted some comments on eyewitness testimony earlier. Please take a look at them. I'll ask you the same question I asked davedan. If a jury system isn't sufficient for you, what is? Please let us know. |
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Post by davedan on Sept 24, 2011 6:55:41 GMT -5
To what? If a jury system is not sufficient for you, what do you want?
I'll ask you the same question I asked davedan. If a jury system isn't sufficient for you, what is? Please let us know.[/quote]
Um I wasn't talking about the jury system - I should have made that clear. I was talking about a system that includes the death penalty. My point being Syaronvee is exactly right in the sense that where you have a death penalty system, you have appeals, you have rehearings of evidence and then you kill them. That is exactly how the system works.
However my point of view is that a system with a death penalty at the end is a system that needs to change. The fact that people can be killed while attended with doubt is just one of several good reasons.
However the best reason I can think of is that a state should not kill its own citizens. Particularly where it tells its citizens not kill each other.
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Post by erictheblue on Sept 24, 2011 8:21:01 GMT -5
Um I wasn't talking about the jury system - I should have made that clear. I was talking about a system that includes the death penalty. Ah, OK. That is understandable.  |
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Post by syaoranvee on Sept 24, 2011 14:22:42 GMT -5
And yet those people are clearly reliable while the 7 eyewitnesses out of 9 who admit that they were coerced into IDing Troy Davis are not, huh? Oh yes, the victim himself had no idea of what he was talking about. This makes sense. There's also no evidence of bring coerced other then their words. I can easily say that they were paid off by Anti-death penalty groups to retract their testimony and it would have the same weight. Yet there's no reason to believe this happened. There are alleged statements that Coles admitted guilt. You can't exactly use that in court. There was only two possible people that could have murdered him, the evidence pointed in the direction of one of them. And once again, those were alleged statements. I don't have all the facts on this case. All I know is that I wish that we had had more time to go over everything before we executed a man who could very well have been as innocent as John Coffey in the Green Mile. Neither Davis or Coles were innocent that night even without the murder charge. They beat the shit out of a homeless man for beer, which at least would be assault, at worst, would be attempted murder. They got caught doing this by the murder victim and tried to flee but Davis shot him in order to keep his mouth shut about their identities. Needless to say, this was not well thought out. |
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Post by brandonl337 on Sept 24, 2011 14:25:31 GMT -5
You can undo (sorta) life in prison, you can't undo the death penalty.
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Post by brandonl337 on Sept 24, 2011 14:29:32 GMT -5
Even if you can't use it in court, in say a retrial, such allegation should have been investigated and Davis' sentence commuted.
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Post by syaoranvee on Sept 24, 2011 14:40:29 GMT -5
Even if you can't use it in court, in say a retrial, such allegation should have been investigated and Davis' sentence commuted. They did. In the 2010 federal hearing. However, because Davis's attorneys failed in serving a subpoena on Coles, there was no weight to it at all. It's was literally hearsay in the first place. |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Sept 24, 2011 17:34:17 GMT -5
Oh yes, the victim himself had no idea of what he was talking about. This makes sense. Because, you know, heightened emotions don't ever cloud judgement and memory and all of that. Srsly? You're going there? Argument's over. |
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Post by brandonl337 on Sept 24, 2011 18:12:08 GMT -5
I didn't even see that.
I think we are going to need to clear something up, Syaoranvee, are you in favor of the death penalty?
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Post by syaoranvee on Sept 24, 2011 18:16:32 GMT -5
Yes I am.
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