|
Post by Star Cluster on Dec 9, 2011 15:55:27 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Old Viking on Dec 9, 2011 16:21:10 GMT -5
Mother nature purging the gene pool.
|
|
|
Post by Star Cluster on Dec 9, 2011 16:36:19 GMT -5
That's true to some extent, OV, but it goes beyond that. The church officials told them they were cured and no longer needed to take medication. They even claimed a "100%" success rate.
Yet these six died after following the advice of the church. And all of a sudden, it's "Rut-Row. They didn't have enough faith that God would heal them. Too bad, so sad."
Yes, the six should have had better sense than to stop all medical treatment and doctor visits. But for the church to tell them they are cured and have no further need for medical treatment goes beyond irresponsible. It's reprehensible.
|
|
|
Post by ironbite on Dec 9, 2011 19:25:18 GMT -5
Oh a nice wrongful death lawsuit is gonna be awesome.
Ironbite-and then the families of the dead can use the church as a time share.
|
|
|
Post by Her3tiK on Dec 9, 2011 20:04:20 GMT -5
Clearly, HIV is not a problem, and thus does not need solving.
|
|
|
Post by Art Vandelay on Dec 10, 2011 0:12:04 GMT -5
Meh, if you're stupid enough to take that faith healing bullshit (or any sort of faith based bullshit for that matter) seriously, than you deserve whatever happens to you, death included.
|
|
|
Post by tolpuddlemartyr on Dec 10, 2011 1:06:21 GMT -5
I guess if you define "success" as "gets them too dead to have a disease" then, yeah, I guess...
|
|
|
Post by anti-nonsense on Dec 10, 2011 2:41:13 GMT -5
I fucking hate faith healers.
|
|
|
Post by The_L on Dec 10, 2011 7:10:21 GMT -5
This is such an obvious case of fraud, I don't understand how it is ever allowed to progress far enough for anyone to die. I guess having a life-threatening disease can make some people desperate enough that they're willing to believe anything that gives them hope.
|
|
|
Post by brendanrizzo on Dec 10, 2011 20:34:39 GMT -5
Oh a nice wrongful death lawsuit is gonna be awesome. Ironbite-and then the families of the dead can use the church as a time share. But the families of the dead are just as fundie. They aren't gonna sue these guys, sadly.
|
|
|
Post by Wykked Wytch on Dec 10, 2011 20:49:33 GMT -5
Meh, if you're stupid enough to take that faith healing bullshit (or any sort of faith based bullshit for that matter) seriously, than you deserve whatever happens to you, death included. Not everyone consents to faith healing in lieu of actual medicine. Take, for example, sick children in extremely religious families. Or people who grow up in third-world countries with no healthcare or education. Choosing faith healing is not always a matter of purposefully being a dumbfuck. Sometimes, they really don't know any better. This "You deserve it for being gullible" mentality strikes me as being just as cruel as the Repugnicans who say "It's your fault you are poor/got raped/don't have healthcare." Educated people in first-world countries with greater chances of access to adequate healthcare might be able to see right through the faith-healing bullshit, but for a lot of people, it's in their culture to rely on faith healing instead of conventional medicine. These victims may have died due to extreme desperation coupled with a religious mentality. In ordinary life, they were probably normally-functioning, totally-not-crazy human beings. TL;DR - These victims should be looked upon with pity and sadness, not with smug, callous disapproval of their choices.
|
|
|
Post by Art Vandelay on Dec 10, 2011 20:58:57 GMT -5
Meh, if you're stupid enough to take that faith healing bullshit (or any sort of faith based bullshit for that matter) seriously, than you deserve whatever happens to you, death included. Not everyone consents to faith healing in lieu of actual medicine. Take, for example, sick children in extremely religious families. Or people who grow up in third-world countries with no healthcare or education. Choosing faith healing is not always a matter of purposefully being a dumbfuck. Sometimes, they really don't know any better. This "You deserve it for being gullible" mentality strikes me as being just as cruel as the Repugnicans who say "It's your fault you are poor/got raped/don't have healthcare." Educated people in first-world countries with greater chances of access to adequate healthcare might be able to see right through the faith-healing bullshit, but for a lot of people, it's in their culture to rely on faith healing instead of conventional medicine. These victims may have died due to extreme desperation coupled with a religious mentality. In ordinary life, they were probably normally-functioning, totally-not-crazy human beings. TL;DR - These victims should be looked upon with pity and sadness, not with smug, callous disapproval of their choices. Except these idiots weren't kids who had no say in the matter nor were they uneducated subsistence farmers from a 3rd world country. Therefore, your reasons for why they should be pitied for falling victim to their own stupidity do not apply and your post serves no purpose whatsoever.
|
|
|
Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 10, 2011 22:11:06 GMT -5
Not everyone consents to faith healing in lieu of actual medicine. Take, for example, sick children in extremely religious families. Or people who grow up in third-world countries with no healthcare or education. Choosing faith healing is not always a matter of purposefully being a dumbfuck. Sometimes, they really don't know any better. This "You deserve it for being gullible" mentality strikes me as being just as cruel as the Repugnicans who say "It's your fault you are poor/got raped/don't have healthcare." Educated people in first-world countries with greater chances of access to adequate healthcare might be able to see right through the faith-healing bullshit, but for a lot of people, it's in their culture to rely on faith healing instead of conventional medicine. These victims may have died due to extreme desperation coupled with a religious mentality. In ordinary life, they were probably normally-functioning, totally-not-crazy human beings. TL;DR - These victims should be looked upon with pity and sadness, not with smug, callous disapproval of their choices. Except these idiots weren't kids who had no say in the matter nor were they uneducated subsistence farmers from a 3rd world country. Therefore, your reasons for why they should be pitied for falling victim to their own stupidity do not apply and your post serves no purpose whatsoever. I disagree, I think her post serves a lot of purpose.
|
|
|
Post by Wykked Wytch on Dec 10, 2011 22:17:50 GMT -5
Except these idiots weren't kids who had no say in the matter nor were they uneducated subsistence farmers from a 3rd world country. Therefore, your reasons for why they should be pitied for falling victim to their own stupidity do not apply and your post serves no purpose whatsoever. I disagree, I think her post serves a lot of purpose. For one thing, it serves the purpose of calling out incorrect blanket statements about other people. I have never really put much stock in the existence of free will. Our will is controlled by a mixture of neurological impulses, instincts, and our environment. The specific environment of these people have caused them to think that getting rid of their HIV medication was a good idea. If you took the exact same person and put them in a different situation where they were not encouraged to think that modern medicine was of teh debbil, the outcome would be very different. In literature, there are plenty of characters who die due to their own flaws, but we rarely are encouraged to laugh at them because of their stupidity. Take Boxer from Animal Farm. He has good intentions and is a hard worker, but he suffers from extreme gullibility. When he gets duped into accepting Animalism and is later tricked into going to the horse slaughterer (under the pretense of going to a doctor for his injuries), we do not laugh at how stupid he was. I really have no idea why this idea of empathy for people who have been duped is lost on you, especially for someone who is very vocal against political lies.
|
|
|
Post by Art Vandelay on Dec 10, 2011 22:34:50 GMT -5
For one thing, it serves the purpose of calling out incorrect blanket statements about other people. I have never really put much stock in the existence of free will. Our will is controlled by a mixture of neurological impulses, instincts, and our environment. The specific environment of these people have caused them to think that getting rid of their HIV medication was a good idea. If you took the exact same person and put them in a different situation where they were not encouraged to think that modern medicine was of teh debbil, the outcome would be very different. Need I point out again these people were educated westerners who were only in that environment because they put themselves there in the first place? Yeah, I'm sorry but that's simply stupidity. In literature, there are plenty of characters who die due to their own flaws, but we rarely are encouraged to laugh at them because of their stupidity. Take Boxer from Animal Farm. He has good intentions and is a hard worker, but he suffers from extreme gullibility. When he gets duped into accepting Animalism and is later tricked into going to the horse slaughterer (under the pretense of going to a doctor for his injuries), we do not laugh at how stupid he was. I really have no idea why this idea of empathy for people who have been duped is lost on you, especially for someone who is very vocal against political lies. Meanwhile, in real life, people who willingly go to these churches and listen to them instead of a doctor on the subject of their medication are fucking idiots and will get no sympathy from me. Besides, political lies get me because politicians are the people who're supposed to be running the country in a way that most benefits its citizens. Basically, politics should be grounded in reality. This stuff is religious, and well, considering religion is centred around taking some batshit loony mythology seriously and is anything but grounded in reality. As such, being outraged that religion involves lying is like being outraged that water is wet.
|
|