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Post by Vene on Dec 18, 2011 14:33:23 GMT -5
Res ipsa loquitur. Try being successful without putting in the effort. Try being successful without the knowledge you need to complete your task. There are a lot of factors needed and your example makes it sound as if all they needed to do was work hard and then they'll be fine. Just working hard isn't enough and in many cases you don't have to actually work hard, you need to work efficiently instead.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 18, 2011 14:39:38 GMT -5
@ Yla
Given the placing of the comment, and in the absence of any indication otherwise it appeared directed at me. The poster can clarify if he/she chooses.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 18, 2011 15:31:12 GMT -5
Uh, Xotan, you did not do a hit and run. The OP did a hit and run.
It's pretty fricking obvious that the poster was talking about the OP.
So stop being butthurt over something that wasn't even directed towards you, kthxbye.
Speaking of which, why the hell isn't this topic locked? Isn't this three pages of FEEDING A DAMN TROLL?
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Post by lexikon on Dec 18, 2011 17:05:20 GMT -5
Because not everyone with these views is a troll.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 18, 2011 17:35:19 GMT -5
Because not everyone with these views is a troll. No, but everyone who posts a topic and then bolts like a bat out of hell is a troll.
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Post by lexikon on Dec 18, 2011 17:48:53 GMT -5
It doesn't mean that the topic isn't worth discussing and/or refuting.
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Post by ltfred on Dec 18, 2011 17:59:34 GMT -5
It is irelevent how smart the average worker is or how hard they work. what are they doing? Are they finding ever more clever ways to fill rubbish tips (landfill to you Americans)? Or are they mining diamonds? They won't make a prosperous macroeconomy, no matter how well they do those things. But do they buid cars, or steel? Secondary industry is the only requirement. You can have the laziest, stupidist workers in the world, but so long as you have sustainable secondary industry, you will develop.
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Post by ltfred on Dec 18, 2011 18:04:06 GMT -5
Quite frankly I resent being called a liar. What I said is true. I, and all my classmates handed over our pennies every day, as did schoolchildren in all other schools across the country. That amounted to something in a year - to a lot over my school years. It will have happened in many, if not all Catholic schools across Europe too. In 1947 a penny sterling value (which is what I am talking about) was nothing a minimal as it later became in the late 1960s and later, post decimalisation. I have no doubt that you did. But the net charitable flow goes the other way, from the Third world to the first. About quadruple the entire foreign aid+private aid budget is sent back in pretend debt charity. Like I said, if there were such thing as foreign aid, maybe you could say it had failed.
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Post by dasfuchs on Dec 18, 2011 21:21:46 GMT -5
on ltfred's point...remember kids, being forced to mine diamonds and such by threat of death while factions war around you means you have better work ethic than western cultures.
Slavery is work ethic now.
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Post by ltfred on Dec 18, 2011 22:15:13 GMT -5
on ltfred's point...remember kids, being forced to mine diamonds and such by threat of death while factions war around you means you have better work ethic than western cultures. Slavery is work ethic now. A deliberate misreading of my post.
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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on Dec 18, 2011 22:59:33 GMT -5
Res ipsa loquitur. Try being successful without putting in the effort. Try being successful without the knowledge you need to complete your task. There are a lot of factors needed and your example makes it sound as if all they needed to do was work hard and then they'll be fine. Just working hard isn't enough and in many cases you don't have to actually work hard, you need to work efficiently instead. Case in point, Mao's great leap forward. The idea was to build steel furnaces in every commune and you better believe that you'd be working your arse off with the CCP and the Red Guards looking over your shoulder. However, insanely hard work combined with a total dearth of knowledge in metallurgy in most of the communes led to total disaster. Knowing stuff actually helps!
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Post by dasfuchs on Dec 19, 2011 7:33:37 GMT -5
on ltfred's point...remember kids, being forced to mine diamonds and such by threat of death while factions war around you means you have better work ethic than western cultures. Slavery is work ethic now. A deliberate misreading of my post. Well, you are the one saying they have better work ethics in Africa than us. Lots of people there are essentially slaves among warring factions. As for those that aren't, they work hard, not because they choose to, but because they have to to survive. I think you'd see the same in any other part of the world once the luxuries were done away with. If we were to roll back the clock on say, the US, to a time period equal with that of Africa you'd see people busting their asses to the point of death at times to survive as well.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 19, 2011 20:01:15 GMT -5
@ Itfred
I take your point and learn from it. That said, my country is a nett contributor of aid and has no return from it at least not in any direct way , that I can ascertain - apart from minor influence It may well indeed benefit indirectly through its dealings/trade with other countries, but it is certainly in no position to do anything about. The failure of foreign aid is at the core of my thought on this thread. The same problems arise repeatedly, and nothing seems to be gained by Africa from previous painful experience. We see the same piteous pictures emerging from the continent and have the same demands being made by charities and aid agencies. Change must come from within Africa. Throwing money at the problems hasn't worked.
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Post by ltfred on Dec 20, 2011 3:51:56 GMT -5
That said, my country is a nett contributor of aid which country? Ireland? Of course foreign aid has failed to improve Africa. As I've pointed out, Africa pays charity to the west- so until the net charity flow is at least neutral, we cannot describe it as part of the solution. The forced charity from the Third world is actually part of the problem, by impoverishing the governments trying to deal with the problem.
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xotan
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Posts: 112
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Post by xotan on Dec 20, 2011 11:26:55 GMT -5
Yes, although I no longer live there.
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