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Post by Dragon Zachski on May 11, 2009 1:07:40 GMT -5
(Of course, this is based on the concept that, if it exists, then it is scientific by the very fact that it exists) www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQHCcuqyXuY&feature=relatedSummary of this video: Guy puts dice in a capped bottle of water, sets it on a table that you can see under, moves a magnet around it to show that the magnet doesn't attract the dice, and then proceeds to supposedly use telekinesis to make the dice float. The argument for the hand gestures is that, due to the subconscious being adjusted to the use of hand movements for doing "supernatural things", the use of hands movements will actually aid the subconscious in accomplishing the goal. I know that the first reaction is to debunk the whole reading thoughts and moving large objects with the power of your mind to be science-fiction-bogusness. And you might be right. Yet people seem to have had this undeniable experience with this stuff. Even I've had experiences, although minor. It's nothing like reading what a person is currently thinking about, or speaking with someone from far away... it's a lot more dulled down than that. Instead of mind-reading, it's more like... mood reading. Psychokinesis (as demonstrated in the video) seems to take more effort to do something than simply doing it physically. ...Of course, that is based on the assumption that it is all true. It might just be a form of mass-self-hypnosis of some sort, with people performing illusions to try to "trick" people or to make themselves feel better. ...I myself doubt that, but my opinion isn't the important part. It's your opinions that are the center of this topic. I know I'm biased, which is why I'm asking for your opinions. How might this video work without being a sort of mental power? What can show this as an illusion? I'm not trying to convert or convince people. I just want to hear what the skeptic's side of the argument is.
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Post by Napoleon the Clown on May 11, 2009 2:18:54 GMT -5
Ever seen stage magic? Or any good slight of hand? A decent magician (illusionist would be a better term) would be able to pull this off no problem.
Question: Why does he have to put the die in a bottle of water? Why not just levitate it normally? Or use something light enough to amount to the same energy use as the die when in water?
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Post by wackadoodle on May 11, 2009 7:10:49 GMT -5
I'm sure if psychics exist they're reduced to wowing people on youtube, no way the military or corporations could have use for a person who could read minds. Seriously, a youtube video?
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Post by chad sexington on May 11, 2009 9:28:54 GMT -5
I'm sure if psychics exist they're reduced to wowing people on youtube, no way the military or corporations could have use for a person who could read minds. Seriously, a youtube video? Try reading 'The Men Who Stare At Goats' sometime. Extraordinary stuff
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Post by Tiger on May 11, 2009 10:02:37 GMT -5
How come you never see a headline like 'Psychic Wins Lottery'? - Jay Leno
It's rather telling that "psychics" will generally only use their talents for entertainment, and can only use them in circumstances of their own design.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on May 11, 2009 10:08:14 GMT -5
I'm sure if psychics exist they're reduced to wowing people on youtube, no way the military or corporations could have use for a person who could read minds. Seriously, a youtube video? 1. The reason for the bottle of water. For one thing... if it was done normally, then a string could EASILY be used to perform an illusion, and thus would be less credible. For another... theoretically, it's easier to make something float in water than it is to make it float in air. 2.. Military applications Reading minds? Seriously? Everyone who has claimed to be proficient in psionics has never claimed to be able to do more than vaguely "feel" what it is the person's thinking. Example: You could be thinking about eating hot dogs, and all anybody would be able to glean is that you happen to be hungry, IF that. Psionics, if it were real, wouldn't really have any practical function. Hence, the lack of military use. As for the Youtube video... well, it could be an illusion, yes. But if you had an "ability" that a lot of people were skeptical of, and you wanted to try to prove that it exists, wouldn't you make a video of you using your ability? I'm wanting to know HOW this video might be an illusion, though. All illusions have an explanation. The only thing I can think of is that he has something attached to the underside of the table that can rapidly heat and rapidly cool the bottle. But then, where's the bubbles?
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Post by Dragon Zachski on May 11, 2009 10:09:22 GMT -5
How come you never see a headline like 'Psychic Wins Lottery'? - Jay Leno It's rather telling that "psychics" will generally only use their talents for entertainment, and can only use them in circumstances of their own design. Because psionics does not cover foresight
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Post by wackadoodle on May 11, 2009 10:18:42 GMT -5
This is a topic about moving stuff with your mind, your honestly telling us the military wouldn't want soldiers who can flip a tank by thinking about it?
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Post by atheiess on May 11, 2009 10:54:14 GMT -5
Could be a trick. It's hard to tell with YouTube videos because they aren't of great quality. Seems like there might be some time tampering in the video as it jumps in some places.
Either way, it's a neat trick! There have been so many claims and witnessed demonstrations of these kinds of things that I kind of think they are possible. I just want to see them documented and performed in a controlled environment.
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Post by peanutfan on May 11, 2009 12:11:35 GMT -5
The military did have a program called "Operation Stargate" (no kidding) back from about the 50s to the early 80s, I think. They did a lot of research into possible uses of psychic ESPionage (ba DUM bum) and such. I haven't seen a lot of their experiment results, but what I have seen and read was inconclusive; some of the things they did produced results that would be trillions to one against, but others exposed their subjects as frauds.
Also, I think I know how that video was done. I'll put it in white below, so those who wish to preserve the illusion don't have to read; just hit the "quote" button to see, or highlight the text.
Notice that we never see the back of the bottle, which has a "rippled" design to make it easier for a drinker to grip. This rippled design, combined with the distortion of the water, can easily conceal a tiny string. This hypothesis is supported by the fact that whenever the die rises, the performer's thumb is behind the bottle and moving downward. For the cap, it would be easy to make it look as though the cap was screwed on tightly; just screw it down a tiny bit, then push the "collar" around the neck of the bottle up against it while letting your fingers slide along the cap; it would require some practice, but would fool most cameras, even high-quality ones. With a tiny loop or hook behind the bottle, concealed by the rippled bottle and water distortion, the performer could subtly slip his thumb through and pull on it to make the die jump.
All else being said, I do think that there are things we humans are at least marginally capable of that aren't yet explainable by the science we yet know; keeping in mind that "data" is not the plural of "anecdote", I've experienced a lot of things that offer no ready explanation, either at the time or in hindsight, including successfully predicting my personal future. I'll go into more detail if asked, but I'd rather not end up being dismissed as a quack, so I'll keep such discussions to PMs.
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Post by Sigmaleph on May 11, 2009 13:13:33 GMT -5
As for the Youtube video... well, it could be an illusion, yes. But if you had an "ability" that a lot of people were skeptical of, and you wanted to try to prove that it exists, wouldn't you make a video of you using your ability? If I had a psychic ability, I'd keep it hidden, but if I had to go public, I'd go ask James Randi for a million dollars. As for military applications, psionics would be incredibly useful for interrogation, and I'm sure there are a million applications for telekinesis in engineering, bomb disarming, etc. Not to mention getting a crew of scientists to explain how it works and find out how to expand the applications.
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Post by peanutfan on May 11, 2009 15:02:19 GMT -5
Did I kill the thread by revealing the secret?
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Post by chad sexington on May 12, 2009 3:09:12 GMT -5
The military did have a program called "Operation Stargate" (no kidding) back from about the 50s to the early 80s, I think. They did a lot of research into possible uses of psychic ESPionage (ba DUM bum) and such. I haven't seen a lot of their experiment results, but what I have seen and read was inconclusive; some of the things they did produced results that would be trillions to one against, but others exposed their subjects as frauds. Not just that, but the brass got sucked in by every spoon-bender around at the time. And instead of admitting defeat, they just declared that they'd Get It Right Next Time, and threw another few million into the project. I'm not sure whether to be more shocked by the waste, or the incredible gullibility from so many highly-educated people.
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Panthera
Full Member
Here kitty kitty...
Posts: 229
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Post by Panthera on May 12, 2009 3:46:24 GMT -5
This is a topic about moving stuff with your mind, your honestly telling us the military wouldn't want soldiers who can flip a tank by thinking about it? My guess is, they'd rather have such an individual either quietly terminated, or drugged into a coma, because that person would be a threat to the US as well Of course, IF humans could move things with their minds, and the most the average person would do was float dice or bend spoons, then the army would have to have a sub-army of several THOUSAND telekinetics, all working in unison, just to handle that one tank. Seems kind of wasteful and pointless when you look at it from that angle, doesn't it? I mean... why pay ten thousand people to flip a single tank, when a land mine or three will do the job that much more cheaply and efficiently?
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Post by canadian mojo on May 12, 2009 7:11:24 GMT -5
Of course, IF humans could move things with their minds, and the most the average person would do was float dice or bend spoons, then the army would have to have a sub-army of several THOUSAND telekinetics, all working in unison, just to handle that one tank. Seems kind of wasteful and pointless when you look at it from that angle, doesn't it? I mean... why pay ten thousand people to flip a single tank, when a land mine or three will do the job that much more cheaply and efficiently? A little pressure on the carotid artery of a world leader, disconnecting a wire in a security system, flipping a pressure switch in a nuclear reactor, work in the 0 gravity of space. The black-ops potential for telekensis would be enormous, as long as it cold be done from a reasonable distance.
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