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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Aug 21, 2009 1:47:33 GMT -5
I do understand that depression is a disease but what worries me is the pathologising of unhappiness. There seems to be a confounding of depression with unhappiness in the US,as if unhappiness is not possible. And a social habit of the quick fix. Unhappiness while not pleasant is not an illness. It doesn't need treatment. The source of unhappiness is what needs to be addressed. Mere unhappiness waxes and wanes, though. If you've struggled to concentrate on the good things in life, to not succumb to the pressure, and still cannot find some measure of at least contentment or pleasure in living, wouldn't it be safe to say that something's wrong? What about when you feel inadequately equipped to deal with the simplest things in life, unable to even imagine a moment of pure contentment, and things have dragged on in this manner for years, despite constant attempts to focus on the positive, the better, the brighter sides of life? Perhaps it's misdiagnosed in some cases, I won't argue that as I really don't know. A lot of people do seem to think that a magic pill will change everything (re: diet pills). It's a bit audacious, however, to say that targeting the root of unhappiness is what *really* needs to be done. I may have misunderstood, though, and you were targeting that comment towards the pill-popping, instant gratification crowd.
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Post by Ranger Joe on Aug 21, 2009 12:03:51 GMT -5
OK, I don't mean this to be flip. The Sandman is going through a pretty dark period right now. I'm struggling with bad depression. I don't want to get into specifics; I just want to know if I'm alone. Anyone here struggle with depression? I have my whole life, and it's bad right now. How do you cope? I'm at my wits end. I was diagnosed with PTSD shortly after my return from the Army. I suffer from depression along with severe anxiety during specific times. You are definitely not alone. I honestly just bottled it and internalized it until I finally went to a therapist. I was one of those locked up vets who thought "Ah, fuck that therapy bullshit. I don't need to sit in some chair somewhere talking about my fucking feelings." I was very, very wrong. She's been very, very good and has helped me overcome some major obstacles. Survivor's Guilt was the toughest for me. I felt for the longest time that because I got hurt badly in combat and taken out of the action beyond the wire that I had failed my squad mates and was ultimately responsible for the deaths of my close friends who died in action after my departure. I know...It's silly...But it's amazing what your mind does to you when your in those dark places. I will offer the same thing that I offer to the returning soldiers that I meet for the first time. PM me if you want to vent or just need an ear. Hooah?
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Post by yojetak on Aug 21, 2009 14:33:35 GMT -5
The source of my depression is our failure to have any children that survived, my struggle with prostate cancer, my financial uncertainties in this world that Bush-Cheny made for us, my enui with my job after 3 decades, my arthritis, the bone spurs in my back making me miss the Ohio Scottish Games for the first time in twenty years, the death of my brother, and the murder of a favorite former student of mine. See, I know exactly where my depression is coming from, and it's certainly not my faith. ((((((((sandman)))))))))))) That's a lot on your plate. All (well most) of us are here for you! Like ranger said, if you ever need to vent or discuss something who's been in the terrible pit that is depression, I'm only a PM away!
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Post by Jodie on Aug 21, 2009 14:43:59 GMT -5
I'm another person who struggles with depression but I am not good at giving advice. Just letting you know that your not alone. (((hugs everyone)))
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Post by Death on Aug 21, 2009 18:42:19 GMT -5
I do understand that depression is a disease but what worries me is the pathologising of unhappiness. There seems to be a confounding of depression with unhappiness in the US,as if unhappiness is not possible. And a social habit of the quick fix. Unhappiness while not pleasant is not an illness. It doesn't need treatment. The source of unhappiness is what needs to be addressed. Mere unhappiness waxes and wanes, though. If you've struggled to concentrate on the good things in life, to not succumb to the pressure, and still cannot find some measure of at least contentment or pleasure in living, wouldn't it be safe to say that something's wrong? What about when you feel inadequately equipped to deal with the simplest things in life, unable to even imagine a moment of pure contentment, and things have dragged on in this manner for years, despite constant attempts to focus on the positive, the better, the brighter sides of life? Perhaps it's misdiagnosed in some cases, I won't argue that as I really don't know. A lot of people do seem to think that a magic pill will change everything (re: diet pills). It's a bit audacious, however, to say that targeting the root of unhappiness is what *really* needs to be done. I may have misunderstood, though, and you were targeting that comment towards the pill-popping, instant gratification crowd. There is definitely a "crowd" of people who like the quick fix to lifes problems,who aren't willing to address what needs tobe addressed. And my post is in part about those people. But I do think that there is a greater societal attitude, at least in the US, that unhappiness is somehow abnormal. Another thing is that most people don;t understand how bad unhappiness can be. I was very very unhappy, just about to the point of being unable tofunction. But I did not suffer from anxiety nor depression. I was just damn bloody miserable. The counsellor I saw supported my willingness to change my life and said that the unhappiness will then pass. Currently I have many big things going on in my life, all those big changes, and get a big anxious sometimes. but as each separate issue is resolved, and as I settle down, the anxiety will pass too. The post you quoted was not directed at Sandman but at what I saw was a general feeling on this thread. I wish Sandman well. Each of your troubles are enough to overwhelm on their own. ((((((((((sandman))))))))))
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Post by gadfly on Aug 24, 2009 2:14:18 GMT -5
Sandman, I don't know the particulars of your situation, but on the surface, just based on what I've read here, your situation with not being able to talk openly about your problems with depression reminds me a lot of Michael Spencer's, AKA the iMonk's, struggle with depression, his father's history of the same, and the 'Christian' response to it. I wasn't sure whether I should post this link, but my boyfriend darthtoxic encouraged me to, so here it is, the iMonk's collected works on the subject of depression and mental illness. "The Boat in the Backyard" is particularly touching, and never fails to move me to tears whenever I read it. I hope these help. God will be with you, even if your fellow Christians, sadly, are not.
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Post by Redhunter on Aug 24, 2009 5:21:21 GMT -5
Well, Red, I'm glad that you found a solution to your depression. Everyone chooses their own path, and if your path is atheism far be it from me to criticize you for it. It seems you arrived at that decision after a long struggle, and I hope it has brought you a measure of peace. I'm not going to get into any kind of long discussion with you on these things, partly because I don't really believe you have any interest in me or my well being (if I'm wrong, I apologize, but based on the contact I have had with you, you just don't seem like the compassionate type--that's not a criticism or a condemnation, just an observation), and partly because I just don't think you are really interested in listening to anything I have to say. You made your position clear, and you have made your disdain for any faith, even one as unconventional and free-thinking as mine, very clear as well. I do not think my faith has anything to do with my depression, nor does my difficulty with the church-political have anything to do with my faith. I am not fond of the church-political. But the human organization known as the "church" is not the same thing as my faith. I thought I was very clear on that. You are not going to deconvert me, nor are you going to convince me that my faith is the source of my depression. The source of my depression is our failure to have any children that survived, my struggle with prostate cancer, my financial uncertainties in this world that Bush-Cheny made for us, my enui with my job after 3 decades, my arthritis, the bone spurs in my back making me miss the Ohio Scottish Games for the first time in twenty years, the death of my brother, and the murder of a favorite former student of mine. See, I know exactly where my depression is coming from, and it's certainly not my faith. I take no comfort from the church. I do not trust the church. But the church is not my faith. If you listen to anything I say, at least listen to that. Wow. Well, to further my honesty on this, you don’t seem to think well of me at all since you’ve basically taken my personal story and direct answer to your question and called it “mocking” and are now alluding that I’m not worth talking to because I don’t actually care about anyone. Wow. Did you really just dehumanize me as an uncaring troll when I was offering my take on dealing with my depression, just as you asked in your opening question? I know you’re depressed but you are imagining that I’m launching an attack on you. Your consequent responses to me based on this erroneous assumption are quite insulting and unnecessary. For someone who doesn’t want “to get into any kind of long discussion” with me “on these things” you’ve had plenty to say to me, but nothing that was really warranted or accurate.
You think I’m mocking you, you think I’m basically trolling you because you think I am faking concern, I suppose that means you think I’m just lying to you about all of this then since you think I don’t mean any of it and/or don’t really care, you think I’m assuming things about your faith, you basically think I’m self-centered and/or a sociopath (that’s the definition of someone who has nothing but disdain for everyone else which is what you are implying) and you also think I’m trying to deconvert you… I really don’t know where you are getting any of this but you are bafflingly and completely off the mark. But I won’t attempt to explain my simple words further as you’ve made your feelings towards me quite clear.
Though I find it odd that you’d spend so many paragraphs telling me how little you think of me and how little you plan on talking to me about the subject.
In the future, perhaps you can just go ahead and tell us up front in the op which posters you’d rather not listen to? That way we can avoid being politely dismissed and insulted for no apparent reason other than you don’t like us personally. Or backhanded comments like, ‘it’s great you’re happy being an atheist, but I don’t trust you, don’t like or believe you and I think you are lying that you’re concerned because you are only here trying to drive a wedge between me and my faith so after these accusations I’m not going to discuss any of this with you’. I thought you were seriously asking a serious question about a very serious subject that I feel strongly about and that was what I was responding to. How wrong I was in that assumption.
Here’s a quick recap list:
I’m not mocking. I DO care. I was being honest so please don't equate seperate takes on a subject to lying or arguing or mocking. I'm not wrong because we have difference stances, we simply have differing stances. I’m not trying to deconvert you because as an atheist I don’t really care a jot nor a whittle what you worship so long as it doesn’t interfere with my life, which your faith does not. I didn’t say that your church was the same as your faith, I said it was interesting the situation you are in and then I explained exactly why I found it interesting. Just because I don’t “buy” your personal brand of faith, doesn’t mean I’m making fun of you by discussing it because if that were the case then no religion would be able to discuss any other religions either without being accused of “mocking”. I didn’t put forth my personal story as an answer or as THE answer; I merely presented it as the personal story that it is. I never assumed I knew the reasons for your depression therefore I was not belittling your past experiences or issues. I didn’t pretend to assume anything about you and if you saw it that way, it was not the intention. And lastly, I only responded directly and honestly to your op question.
Whatever else you see is all you but repeating your accusations and reading into what I’m saying will never make those things true. I haven’t been here in a while and when I do, I normally don’t see that much that I feel compelled to talk about. Like many, many others here and elsewhere, I’ve struggled mightily with depression and in the past have even come pretty close to killing myself on a number of occasions. I’ve been sick to my stomach with unwarranted guilt and hopelessness, with loneliness and regret and trauma and abuse both physical and psychological. I am poisonously serious on the subject but your attitude has disregarded my feelings, my past experiences and my pain and accused me of some kind of jerkish, mysterious ulteriour motive.
I find that really unfortunate for you.
Funny, now even though I want to tell you “good luck”, I can’t help but feel that you are only going to see it as some kind of attack on you as if I’m mocking you or some such nonsense, so I will refrain. I am really sorry you are unable to see my words how they were meant and instead see them as some type of anti-social, trolling behaviour because you are flat out wrong about that, but that decision was and is all up to you.
Regardless, however it might happen, I do hope you find even a single digit percentage of the happiness I feel now.
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rfp15
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Post by rfp15 on Aug 25, 2009 19:33:26 GMT -5
I have also struggled with depression since I was about 14, but was not actually diagnosed until age 26. I think that the worst part of it for me was feeling like shit, and not understanding why. I was one of those in which other people could see the problem, but I had no idea.
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Post by nickiknack on Aug 25, 2009 20:19:03 GMT -5
I'm another, who has struggled with depression for years, so you are'nt alone. I'm on prozac, which has made feel much better, and I see someone every 3 months. I still feel like shit some days but not that often. Pets do help also, because I'm much more happy now since I got my new dog, then how I was year ago, when I was still mourning over the death of my last dog.
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Post by RavynousHunter on Aug 31, 2009 3:37:35 GMT -5
I don't have a solution to my depression. Even when I got medicine to help, I rarely took them because I feared addiction, which I saw in my father. Its something I just have to fight on my own. Its a fight without a foreseeable end, but one that must continue if I am to have any hope at all.
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Panthera
Full Member
Here kitty kitty...
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Post by Panthera on Aug 31, 2009 3:57:49 GMT -5
"Coping?" What is this "coping?"
Me, I just ride it out. Mostly because I don't have any other choice. I tend to sleep a lot when I'm depressed, so I guess that counts as some sort of "coping...?"
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Post by RavynousHunter on Aug 31, 2009 4:12:16 GMT -5
Actually, I think the sleeping during depression is more a result of a chemical imbalance, but don't quote me on that.
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Post by Lady Renae on Aug 31, 2009 11:24:31 GMT -5
So that's why I have a hard time getting motivated to get out of bed... much of ever...
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null
New Member
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Post by null on Aug 31, 2009 16:00:19 GMT -5
I'm coming to the conclusion that I too have some sort of problem; some days I'm fine, motivated etc. Others, I just feel terrible, when I lie in bed my thoughts drift to suicide, most of the time I don't actually want to do so; I just, think about the particulars of how one would go about it, what I'd do, where I would go. Fortunately, there periods pass, I've found running helps with these thoughts but as I have asked friends - what degree of suicidal thought is 'normal'?
I wouldn't wish this on anyone, I hope you get through this Sandman.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Aug 31, 2009 16:26:00 GMT -5
Sandman, I don't know the particulars of your situation, but on the surface, just based on what I've read here, your situation with not being able to talk openly about your problems with depression reminds me a lot of Michael Spencer's, AKA the iMonk's, struggle with depression, his father's history of the same, and the 'Christian' response to it. I wasn't sure whether I should post this link, but my boyfriend darthtoxic encouraged me to, so here it is, the iMonk's collected works on the subject of depression and mental illness. "The Boat in the Backyard" is particularly touching, and never fails to move me to tears whenever I read it. I hope these help. God will be with you, even if your fellow Christians, sadly, are not. I know that this was intended for Sandman, but...wow. I read the story you mentioned, The Boat in the Backyard, and I'm starting to think of similar things I've noticed, in my mother's actions and my own...brought me to tears... Thank you so much for sharing that.
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