null
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by null on Sept 28, 2009 4:04:36 GMT -5
Obligatory:
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lightmelon
Junior Member
Don't swallow the seeds! You'll asplode!
Posts: 95
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Post by lightmelon on Sept 28, 2009 7:45:39 GMT -5
I personally don't see how being bred to die is the slightest bit humane. People in the line for capital punishment got there for a reason 90% of the time, maybe more. These creatures were born into slaughterhouses, chopped up just to supply selfish human demands of taste and habit. They never did anything wrong, but they never get one bit of a happy life nonetheless. If we did this to children from birth it would be considered worse than torture. But just because they are a different species than us, they are somehow less viable? That is disgusting. Fuck speciesists.. Is this what we reduce life to? Is there no respect for something feeling and being alive, just like we are? Never mind that our bodies are developed for plant based diets, as shown by science and obvious looks.We are easily able to get our nutritional needs through a balanced veggie diet. Even when humans were nomadic 90% of their diet was harvested, not hunted. And those hunters did it by hand, with crude weapons to make it even and had reverence for the things they killed, not just laughed and shrugged it off. These days we just go to the store, pick up a nicely wrapped package and give it no second thought to the suffering behind it. Never mind that meat and dairy cause more health problems than they are worth, especially in this day and age when even the free range and organic meats are pumped full of growth hormones and god knows what else. We're the only damn creatures on this planet that still drink milk after we are grown. That's not even natural. People are so desensitized to death and selfish killing of humans and animals alike no one even seems to care. Fucking disgusts me. If you've gone this long without eating meat, why turn back now? You must already have a dietary habit put into lace, why ruin that? Also, eating organic and free range shit isn't helping the environment. The amount of resources used to produce food and water to these animals before they slaughter them is huge. The rain forests can tell you that. I'm really sorry if this sounds harsh. It's just even the slightest bit of gratification for meat eaters and the brutal treatment of animals sickens me. There is no excuse except for immaturity, coldness, or laziness. Go ahead and call me crazy or whatever, fair play. I've been weak and ate cheese or whatever and beat myself up about it because I knew I was wrong. But at least I try and change this.
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Post by katz on Sept 28, 2009 9:09:50 GMT -5
I personally don't see how being bred to die is the slightest bit humane. People in the line for capital punishment got there for a reason 90% of the time, maybe more. These creatures were born into slaughterhouses, chopped up just to supply selfish human demands of taste and habit. They never did anything wrong, but they never get one bit of a happy life nonetheless. If we did this to children from birth it would be considered worse than torture. But just because they are a different species than us, they are somehow less viable? That is disgusting. Fuck speciesists.. Is this what we reduce life to? Is there no respect for something feeling and being alive, just like we are? My response? They're animals. I love my dog as much as anyone, but I recognize that what we consider pets are only more human because of the value we assign to them. Plenty of people eat dogs. Plenty of people keep pigs and cows as pets. Some special people have pet carrots. Animals feel on a primitive level, but no matter what you try to convince yourself of, animals are not equal to humans. Cows have never been able to treat cancer or be diplomats. With the exception of wild game, the animals we eat would not exist at all if we had no selectively bred them for their meat. It's comparable to picking apples off a true. There's life and then there's life. Grass is alive and you walk on it. A fetus is alive, but I'm betting you are very pro-choice. Not all life is equal. Well, here's the thing, we've evolved past hunting and gathering. A long time ago. Human knowledge jumped forward when we domesticated animals and weren't spending hours finding a handful of berries. This is what led to such inventions such as medicine, the printing press, and factory-packed tofu. Anthropologists are even suggesting that the extra protein itself led to the brain's increased functions. I do agree with you that people today don't want to know where their meat from; I, however, have seen hunting and fishing since I was a kid and visit farms regularly. I knew that used to be a cute little chick and I'm not going to lose sleep, or chicken wings, over it. I'm going to have to disagree with health issues. The only reason my knees are as filled with holes as a doily is because I've drank milk at least once a day for my life, as my joint specialist has told me. It's the biggest natural source of calcium, and it's a lot more natural than a capsule (which probably is either coated with crushed insects or contains cow bones). Yeah, too much fat is bad for you, but plenty of people who eat meat aren't dropping like flies, and I've seen plenty of tubby vegetarians (because, hey, there's no meat in Twinkies). I don't know what crapsack country you live in, but my government has pretty strict regulations on even non-organic meat and stricter ones on organic meat, and they enforce that shit. Again, I'm not desensitized to murder, but to death? Every time you breath in, you kill hundreds of microbes. Where does it end? Besides, have you read the back of a pack of meat alternative lately? Can you pronounce the stuff on the back? I can, but then, I've taken Grade 12 Advanced Chemistry. "Why quit now?" is the mantra of a VLT addict about to blow his paycheck on slots, not a rational reason. If I've protested an abortion clinic every Saturday morning for seven years but then realized I'm being an asshole, I wouldn't keep doing it because I've put so much time into it. Yeah, I have a good diet, but meat wouldn't ruin it. I still know healthy eating. I would still eat more veggies than the normal person. I'm not saving my virginity.[/quote] So factory farming is bad, but free range farming is bad...? Also, you need land to farm crops as well, and land to built giant tofu factories on. And the house you live in. And huge polluting power plants to power the internet you're using. Really, your solution is just to die. No, it doesn't sound harsh, it sounds like all the dogmatic reasons I started that I no longer believe are true. Immaturity is believing you're a special little snowflake because you're 0.01% less cruel than other people. There are people starving in Africa, getting blown up in the Middle East, and living under inhumane governments in Asia. Killing a cow should be the least of a person's guilt.
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Post by Amaranth on Sept 28, 2009 9:36:24 GMT -5
Killing a cow should be the least of a person's guilt. While probably not what you meant, killing a cow is the culmination of a resource-intensive process that is environmentally unfriendly and socially irresponsible. We eat way too much meat as a culture, and when you consider those same starving people in Africa, killing a cow should probably make you feel very guilty. ...Just not for the reason that it's life.
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Post by tygerarmy on Sept 28, 2009 10:00:02 GMT -5
I was a vegetarian in Junior High. Don't do a 180 unless you want to. I started with the meats I enjoyed before I was a vegetarian. Now I'll eat almost anything. I would start with a normal vegetarian meal plus a side of meat.
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Post by Mantorok on Sept 28, 2009 10:14:18 GMT -5
We eat way too much meat as a culture, and when you consider those same starving people in Africa, killing a cow should probably make you feel very guilty. Eh? They're starving because there's no financial gain in giving people food for free, and we refuse to try control the population growth (instead we let Christians tell them condoms are bad).
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Post by agnosticantagonist on Sept 28, 2009 11:24:34 GMT -5
I love everything about meat, even the where it comes from bit.
You have your ethics. I have mine.
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Post by Armand Tanzarian on Sept 28, 2009 11:27:25 GMT -5
Lightmelon: Then eat only what you catch. I've done that before with molluscs. They're surprisingly good.
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Post by Spong Habsburg on Sept 28, 2009 11:43:47 GMT -5
I know I've shown the recipe for this bacon-based belly-buster here on this site once before, but in commemoration of katz' triumphant return to the meat-eating world, I'll post it again, just for her. Bacon Explosion* (*Lipitor prescription not included ) This should be moved to the NSFW section. I mean, it is, in every sense, hardcore food porn.
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Post by Yaezakura on Sept 28, 2009 12:07:25 GMT -5
Lightmelon, I know exactly where my meat comes from. I've hunted and fished. I've seen a slaughterhouse in operation. I've personally skinned and gutted a pig. It's not pretty, but it is natural. Just because we use modern tools to kill and process doesn't make the act unnatural.
Something you're not really considering is how beneficial domestication is for the animals. Yes, they are bred and raised to feed us. But that very fact means that our survival depends on their survival. We will ensure that cows and chickens never go extinct because we rely on them for food. In the grand scheme of things, it's a win-win situation. The animals are ensured their species will survive, and we get the food we need to survive. We're even doing our best to develop reliable, responsible aquaculture, so we can have the supply of fish our population depends on without having to continue to hunt the wild waters to the point of no return.
The simple fact is, there's not enough viable farmland in the world to feed the entire human population on plants alone. They're working on the problem, but it's a long way off. Human life depends on meat. You may have the option to turn your nose to a nutritious meal because you don't like the fact that it was once walking around, but for billions of people, any food at all is like a gift from god. People who are starving couldn't give half a shit about your holier-than-thou attitude towards meat.
Besides, as katz pointed out... why this separation between animal life and plant life? Plants are just as alive as we are, but you have no qualms about slaughtering them by the millions, eating their babies, chewing them up and enjoying the taste, sacrificing their lives to sustain your own. How cruel could you possibly be, to enact such horror upon those defenseless plants?
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Post by katz on Sept 28, 2009 12:18:45 GMT -5
I know I've shown the recipe for this bacon-based belly-buster here on this site once before, but in commemoration of katz' triumphant return to the meat-eating world, I'll post it again, just for her. Bacon Explosion* (*Lipitor prescription not included ) This should be moved to the NSFW section. I mean, it is, in every sense, hardcore food porn. Friends of mine made this at a party. It was later described as "The best thing you've ever eaten while you're still eating it and you want more even though you know it'll kill you, but then after you're done you look at your grease-drenched plate and you hate yourself so very much. Like cocaine."
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Post by Rat Of Steel on Sept 28, 2009 12:32:31 GMT -5
I know I've shown the recipe for this bacon-based belly-buster here on this site once before, but in commemoration of katz' triumphant return to the meat-eating world, I'll post it again, just for her. Bacon Explosion* (*Lipitor prescription not included ) This should be moved to the NSFW section. I mean, it is, in every sense, hardcore food porn. Ain't that the goddamn truth? ;D
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Post by skyfire on Sept 28, 2009 12:42:45 GMT -5
We eat way too much meat as a culture, and when you consider those same starving people in Africa, killing a cow should probably make you feel very guilty. Eh? They're starving because there's no financial gain in giving people food for free, and we refuse to try control the population growth (instead we let Christians tell them condoms are bad). No, often people are starving because: 1. The political powers that be put in motion policies that have resulted in the population starving. For example, in Zimbabwe and a few other nations, white landowners were chased off of their land by the ruling government; the government then gave the land out based on who kissed the most ass instead of who had actual farming skill. The end result is that Zimbabwe has become a net importer of food when instead they used to be a net exporter, and other nations are now having trouble keeping people fed. 2.Tribal, religious, and racial warfare are realities of life in many places. Kinda hard to grow things when people are trying to kill you and blow your shit up. 3. Inadequate infrastructure in order to get aid shipments through. Not all places in Africa have roads, rail, or other means by which large-scale food shipments can be brought in. On top of that, there's also a shortage of airports and harbors wherein bulk shipments can arrive. This severely limits what can come into the continent and where it can go. 4. Ignorance and rumor resulting in locals turning down aid. For example, some time ago a rumor began that American-produced infant formula mix contained a chemical that would render infants sterile. Although there is absolutely no truth to the rumor, as late as a few years ago you actually had instances where villagers would simply abandon the infant formula given as aid; my intro to sociology prof actually watched it happen while she was on the continent one year.
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Post by mistermuncher on Sept 28, 2009 12:47:44 GMT -5
As true as all that may be, Sky, it could only be afforded as a reasonable excuse for the state of most African nations if you pretend that history started 50 years ago. None of the situations you describe happened entirely by accident nor wholly through the fault of the native Africans, as you're no doubt aware.
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Post by katz on Sept 28, 2009 12:57:20 GMT -5
Long story short about Africa, most people can agree it was a combination between colonization and Africa just not being a very habitable continent. Whitey's not totally to blame, but you really can't ignore that many years of squeezing diamonds and rubber out of a place.
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