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Post by Vene on Sept 28, 2009 17:04:58 GMT -5
Yae, the last time I checked, farm animals do have the proper regions of the brain for emotions. They're not something that just humans experience.
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Post by Mira on Sept 28, 2009 17:10:58 GMT -5
Well, sure cows are dumb, but pigs are still as smart as (if not smarter) than your pet dog (I know you don't have a dog, just talking to people in general.)
If the animal is killed without pain then I am fine with it, but unfortunately the living conditions are still usually terrible. Unfortunately we still don't have an economically feasible way to combat this practice. The problem of animal ethics isn't really something we can solve with a change in culture. Sure, we can get people to eat less meat, and that would overall be pretty good, but it is simply impossible to cut it out entirely right now without big changes in technology and economics. If you have the freedom to not eat animals then I think that's great, but it isn't feasible on a grand scale.
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Post by Mira on Sept 28, 2009 17:17:23 GMT -5
I would love to see a world where no feeling thing was killed, but that just isn't realistic right now. It would require advanced crops and an overhaul of our entire food industry. You're wanting to take options away from the people of the world because you project humanity onto things that aren't human. I hope you weren't talking to me, because I don't want to take away anybody's options. I just have an idealized cultural shift in my mind where the majority of the diet is vegetarian and the meat that is eaten comes from humane sources. Of course people would shift from this, my ideas are mostly just pipe dreams.
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Post by Undecided on Sept 28, 2009 17:18:49 GMT -5
I think that animal welfare is a poor reason for vegetarianism: after all, if we can use them for science, we can use them for burgers.
I'm still a vegetarian, but it's more out of habit and the impression that vegetables use less resources per unit amount than meat since there is some energy loss in the food chain.
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Post by clockworkgirl21 on Sept 28, 2009 18:07:36 GMT -5
I have no problem eating animals from our farm. They're fed well, not abused or neglected, and are killed painlessly. I saw our cow meet her end. The butcher stuck her head through this frame thing, and a big block smacked her in the head. She didn't feel a thing. I've also seen them use these special rifles. They drop dead in an instant.
However, I'm appalled at the treatment of factory farm animals. All those assholes need to be in jail for animal abuse.
Well, some humans are never going to accomplish more than that...
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Post by Magnizeal on Sept 28, 2009 18:09:24 GMT -5
Here's a question for vegetarians. If a slab of meat was grown in a lab, would you be willing to eat that? No animal, never connected to a brain or anything, just a slab of meat. (I'm sure it would look rather freaky in the lab...) Essentially, it was never alive, couldn't possibly feel pain or anything like that. Would it be okay to eat that? I'm asking from pure curiosity.
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Post by Mira on Sept 28, 2009 18:37:02 GMT -5
Here's a question for vegetarians. If a slab of meat was grown in a lab, would you be willing to eat that? No animal, never connected to a brain or anything, just a slab of meat. (I'm sure it would look rather freaky in the lab...) Essentially, it was never alive, couldn't possibly feel pain or anything like that. Would it be okay to eat that? I'm asking from pure curiosity. Like this?I love science! I don't see why anybody would have an ethical problem with that, but I could see the veggies who do it for diet and health not eating it.
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Post by wackadoodle on Sept 28, 2009 18:53:21 GMT -5
That thing sounds awesome, just throw the shit in there, turn it on and have a steak in an hour. I wonder how it tastes though.
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Post by Vene on Sept 28, 2009 19:23:41 GMT -5
About that, it says it contains "animal muscle cells, oxygen, and nutrients." How did they get the cells and what exactly are the nutrients. This looks like it just grows cell cultures and is essentially a kitchen petri dish.
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Post by discoberry on Sept 28, 2009 19:32:26 GMT -5
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Post by Mira on Sept 28, 2009 19:32:47 GMT -5
I have no idea about anything dealing with the thing, but I imagine they can get animal muscle cells without killing the animal. Definitely not the ideal technology, but still a step.
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Post by Vene on Sept 28, 2009 19:47:25 GMT -5
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Post by Mira on Sept 28, 2009 20:01:24 GMT -5
Ah, thanks for the info Vene. I didn't even think about the amount of flavour the fat and blood add. Still, science moves on. I would think that we'll see the technology for quality artificial meat before too long. Then it's just a matter of practicality.
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lightmelon
Junior Member
Don't swallow the seeds! You'll asplode!
Posts: 95
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Post by lightmelon on Sept 28, 2009 20:58:04 GMT -5
wow, so much bullshit was said while I was in bed, (not feeling too well today =/) I don't even know where to start. I'm probably going to miss something here. Oh well.....here goes.
Number one: Yay for assumptions? I've noticed several people jumping on the bandwagon that I'm just another ill-informed holier than thou veggiehead with no reasoning to back up my claims other than "Cows are cute!" Maybe I haven't given ya ll enough reason to believe I'm NOT that, and even though we all do it, assuming is bad, humph. Well, I just recently became a vegetarian, in case you're wondering. Ever since I learned what factory farming is all about and where meat comes from, oh, at about the age of 10, I wanted to quit it. I'm also lactose intolerant, so giving up dairy was a want to stop the torture of animals (I'd consider a life of being artificially inseminated torture, along with my...boobs? Being ripped at by sucking machine pretty horrible.) and kinda a need. I've had some pretty bad stomachaches from it. Well, I studied for years the pros and cons of becoming a vegetarian vs. omnivore, and this is what I got. I canNOT justify in my head how it is okay- with the current way they produce meat, free range or factory farmed, to support them by eating the shit.
I never said life was equal, putting words in my mouth? I just said condemning anything that can feel (and yes, these animals have central nervous systems that compare to ours) pain and emotion to a life of torture is wrong. Grass doesn't feel pain when you step on it like a cow would when you kick it in the face. A fetus is a cluster of cells at the early stages when most abortions are performed. (This is a WHOLE separate subject however. Cows don't attach themselves to humans and leech off of them. Fetuses are just advanced parasites...women should have a choice what to do with their own body, but a cow's body isn't ours.) It doesn't have a sense of emotion of a completed central nervous system...or even life experience.
And on one little note- most people are never going to be diplomats or treat cancer. Hell, 90% of the people I live by are never going to do anything more useful than shit, eat, make babies, raise them to be gangstas! and go to the Jerry Springer show....lmao. Feel that human worth.
Are you implying I'm stupid? I graduated high school, took Chemistry and was an ace at languages....so I'm willing to bet I can read the back of a box of Tofurky. Your point?
And as for implying I'm only worried about death, I've made it quite obvious so far I'm more concerned about their lives as a whole. Next!
Or it could be the same mantra of someone thats abstained from cigs for 12 years and is going to quit trying and start smoking again. Language can be applied to many situations. Point?
My simple point was if you cared about animal rights at one point, why stop caring? Have you matured, or grown more bitter? If you think you are doing the right thing, go for it.
lol what? There's a difference between factory farming and power plants for internet usage. The only things that die for internet are brain cells when someone visits /b/. I know that when veggies are farmed small animals can get caught in machinery and shredded. And worms, they die like crazy in farms but I will admit I'm not even sure how their nervous systems work, or if they even have one. Point is, they are in the wild, they've lived lives, not bred in cages and treated mercilessly until they die. That is a molehill compared to a mountain anyways when you consider how many animals die a year for the meat industry. Lesser of the two evils?
If I could help those people, I would. I'm stuck in Alabama though, and I do what I can to help out here. I volunteer, I donate to charities when I can meet the bills. And I don't think I'm special at all, lol. I contribute to everything thats bad in this world just as much as everyone else, but I look for ways to be better....and I'm not the only one. I don't feel this way to feel better about myself or get attention, I've just always been compassionate, it's part of who I am. Even when I was 4 I'd spend my afternoons riding my big wheel, picking worms that had crawled on the hot concrete to fry and sticking them back in the cool grass. I might just be weird, who knows. But I'm not hurting anyone, so I don't see why everyone has been so hostile to me about how I feel about these subjects, online and off. I do what I think is right. You do what you think is right, and I'm cool with that, even if I think it's wrong. Sheesh.
This is actually quite the good idea. Go go solving the overpopulation problem!?
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lightmelon
Junior Member
Don't swallow the seeds! You'll asplode!
Posts: 95
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Post by lightmelon on Sept 28, 2009 21:01:16 GMT -5
I also think using them for science is wrong, because there are other more advanced options (and often more useful ones) that have been developed.
Uh, kinda would feel odd, but if nothing had to suffer OR die? Sure....I guess? If it looked appetizing.
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