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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Oct 4, 2009 11:57:27 GMT -5
Uh. Long story short, I was searching for cute baby pictures, and tripped over Jill Stanek's blog...in particular, this post: www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/02/naming_frances.html#more It's Evidently, these people complained because in the US, mothers are supposedly not allowed to legally name their terminated pregnancies if said pregnancy terminated before the 20th week, and were upset because some feminist website called France's move to allow mothers to legally name the miscarriages whatever they want. I, personally, have mixed and confused feelings. On the one hand, if the mother insists on taking the embryo or fetus home to bury it or whatever, I can't really see a legitimate reason to prevent her from doing so. On the other hand...WHY would you feel that you need the government's permission to name your baby? You know, the same government that you're ranting against for allowing abortions? Why do you feel that you need an official certificate of birth and/or one of death? Will that REALLY give you emotional closure, as much or moreso than being allowed to bury your wanted child? Others' thoughts are wanted and appreciated; I'm just trying to make sense of all this, and I apologize if this is a repeat or in the wrong forum... |
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Post by Yaezakura on Oct 4, 2009 12:09:12 GMT -5
Okay, something like this is just plain creepy. I mean, I understand that if you want a baby, and you're pregnant, you get attached to the idea, and that a miscarriage is a big loss and painful. But the thing was never a child. Unless they also plan to name their internal organs and give them burials if they have to be removed, it just seems silly.
My mom had a miscarriage before she got pregnant with my little sister. She was disappointed, but she didn't try and bring the thing home and bury it in the yard, or to get a funeral held for it, let alone name it.
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Post by dasfuchs on Oct 4, 2009 12:41:27 GMT -5
I can understand naming it, and support the idea if it helps the parents in the grieving process. I mean this was something many people try for, they should be allowed to name it if they choose to.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Oct 4, 2009 12:51:19 GMT -5
But to help in the grieving process, does it matter whether or not they get an "official" piece of paper with the name on it, noting the birth and/or death? I mean, I can understand naming it, too, and I don't think ANYONE should say "Pfft it's stupid to name it, you're a moron", but WHY do you need a certificate? To make it "official"?
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Post by dasfuchs on Oct 4, 2009 14:48:22 GMT -5
I dunno, different people need different things. Far as I'm concerned when I die, dump my body in a ditch or bury it in a shallow hole somewhere, toss it in a dumpster, whatever. Others spend tens of thousands of dollars to prepare themselves for rotting out a box nder 6 feet of dirt with a marker no one but the family, friends, and the groundskeeper might care about.
It's a complicated issue to tell someone what they need when they grieve because no one, including the people grieving, know.
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Post by Tiger on Oct 4, 2009 14:51:49 GMT -5
If it gives them emotional closure, I don't really see any reason not to allow it.
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Post by Yaezakura on Oct 4, 2009 14:58:12 GMT -5
If it gives them emotional closure, I don't really see any reason not to allow it. If a grieving former-mother-to-be wants to name their fetus, by all means. I don't think there needs to be a legal process for it, or that government employees should be forced to write out death certificates for an entity that never really existed. They should have more important things to do with their time. |
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Post by Elly on Oct 4, 2009 15:19:55 GMT -5
It sounds creepy... All one would be getting is an official death certificate, right?
And the desire to be given maternity leave for a miscarriage is just needless and silly.
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Post by Old Viking on Oct 4, 2009 15:20:59 GMT -5
These people are so unbalanced that something like this is actually an issue.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Oct 4, 2009 15:36:53 GMT -5
If it gives them emotional closure, I don't really see any reason not to allow it. If a grieving former-mother-to-be wants to name their fetus, by all means. I don't think there needs to be a legal process for it, or that government employees should be forced to write out death certificates for an entity that never really existed. They should have more important things to do with their time. ^^^ That's kinda my point. I do not want to be a bitch and condenscending and tell people how to grieve, but I can not understand why it's important to get legal documentation. If it's the issue of letting others who might hear about it know that the fetus was loved and wanted, and has been given a name, wouldn't a newspaper ad or, you know, putting a memorial thing on the back of your car work just as well? I just...ugh. I don't know how to explain why I find it so odd to demand that sort of thing...a funeral, I can actually understand...but I guess it all goes back to the "potential person vs. person" thing... |
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Post by The Lazy One on Oct 4, 2009 15:43:53 GMT -5
It sounds creepy... All one would be getting is an official death certificate, right? And the desire to be given maternity leave for a miscarriage is just needless and silly. Well, I can understand wanting time off from work to grieve, but I don't know if it should be considered maternity leave. When my dad's friend died he took sick leave from work so he could go visit his friend's grave to help the closure process. |
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Post by Thejebusfire on Oct 4, 2009 15:49:20 GMT -5
Do they want death certificates for feti or something?
That is weird.
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Post by Vene on Oct 4, 2009 16:54:05 GMT -5
But to help in the grieving process, does it matter whether or not they get an "official" piece of paper with the name on it, noting the birth and/or death? I mean, I can understand naming it, too, and I don't think ANYONE should say "Pfft it's stupid to name it, you're a moron", but WHY do you need a certificate? To make it "official"? I'm guessing that it's the same reason that acknowledging other religious is offensive to fundies and the same reason why same sex marriage hurts hetero marriage. From what I've seen fundies need somebody to validate their beliefs and, in this case, that means the government needs to do it. |
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Oct 4, 2009 17:02:40 GMT -5
But to help in the grieving process, does it matter whether or not they get an "official" piece of paper with the name on it, noting the birth and/or death? I mean, I can understand naming it, too, and I don't think ANYONE should say "Pfft it's stupid to name it, you're a moron", but WHY do you need a certificate? To make it "official"? I'm guessing that it's the same reason that acknowledging other religious is offensive to fundies and the same reason why same sex marriage hurts hetero marriage. From what I've seen fundies need somebody to validate their beliefs and, in this case, that means the government needs to do it. But I thought most of them are distrustful of or outright hate the government. AGH. Forget it. I keep trying to make sense of fundism, I'll drive myself crazy like this. |
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Post by Lady Renae on Oct 4, 2009 19:43:49 GMT -5
As a woman who has miscarried, I fully disapprove of this latest asshattery. There is NO NEED to make a legal document for someone who died before they were even born. You can name them all you like, but the government is not there to justify your emotions. They don't even need to be justified.
If you feel this was your child, then that's how it is. Getting all the legal tape to go with it is unhealthy. It's called obsession, and it needs to be stopped.
And yes, I named my miscarriage. It's called "coping". Doing anything more than that, however, is a rather scary road to go down.
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