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Post by coyote on Nov 11, 2009 14:34:10 GMT -5
That's right.
I was born in India and I'm Indian by lineage. Still, every member of my extended family speaks english at home. We're Roman Catholic (Well, they are. I'm agnostic and leaning toward atheism).
Over the years, many of my relatives have moved to Canada. I myself came here in 2003, when I was thirteen.
One of those relatives is my father's sister, Juliana. She is a fundamentalist Catholic. She believes homosexuality is a sin, but she's close friends with many homosexuals and doesn't try to shove her beliefs down their throats. She goes to church at least twice a day, prays a lot, and spends about 90 per cent of her free time volunteering at food banks, the hospital, retirement homes and shelters. All this, and she's a caring mother of two as well.
My family is going through a financial crisis at the moment as a result of the recession. Both the breadwinners were laid off at some point and all of us work small jobs now, but it isn't enough to pay the mortgage. She and her husband (who are quite well-off) are helping us keep our heads above water.
She's the kind of person who seems to want nothing more than to help other people, and she never thinks of being rewarded for her efforts.
She may not be someone who can rationalize her beliefs, but she has my respect as one of the few truly good people in the world.
Why the hell can't other fundies be like her?
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Post by dantesvirgil on Nov 11, 2009 14:48:02 GMT -5
There are lots of others like her, actually; but I wonder if she truly qualifies as "fundamentalist" in the absence of characteristics like shoving one's religion in others faces or refusing to be friends with people living "in sin"? Her beliefs are irrational and faith based, yes; but I wonder if she's truly a fundamentalist.
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Post by coyote on Nov 11, 2009 15:00:22 GMT -5
I suppose she's still a religious fundamentalist in the sense that she follows religious teachings carefully - the difference is that she seems to have consciously ignored the hateful teachings and focused on the ones that talk about helping others in need.
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Post by dantesvirgil on Nov 11, 2009 15:06:06 GMT -5
Right, but then she's not a fundamentalist, if she's picking/ignoring certain teachings, right? Fundamentalism turns on strict observation of religious dogma (or at least the appearance of it), among other things. She just sounds like someone who has an irrational belief in gods. And, incidentally, like a good person.  |
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Post by Vene on Nov 11, 2009 15:12:29 GMT -5
Right, but then she's not a fundamentalist, if she's picking/ignoring certain teachings, right? I wonder how you even could be a Christian fundamentalist with that definition as I don't know how you could follow contradictory teachings. |
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Post by coyote on Nov 11, 2009 15:14:08 GMT -5
Isn't that what the loudest, stupidest fundies do? They pick and choose to parrot the teachings that advocate hate while ignoring all the others.
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Post by dantesvirgil on Nov 11, 2009 15:21:25 GMT -5
Right, but then she's not a fundamentalist, if she's picking/ignoring certain teachings, right? I wonder how you even could be a Christian fundamentalist with that definition as I don't know how you could follow contradictory teachings. Religion is one big contradictory teaching. What I meant by that is that the OP sounds like she is hearing the hateful dogma with the other more benign bits and is choosing to ignore the hateful bits in favor of the parts that appeal to her sense of ethics. That's certainly not a fundamentalist, at least in my opinion. |
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Post by id82 on Nov 11, 2009 15:32:36 GMT -5
Catholics in my experiences tend to be less fundie since they view the bible as moral guidelines and stories than the exact word of God, and true stories. I've also noticed that Catholics seem to be more tolerant of other peoples beliefs, as compared to your run of the mill fundamentalist who believes everyone should be exactly like them.
Catholics still do things I hate though, such as the belief that if you are not married in a Catholic church than you are not married.
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Post by mistermuncher on Nov 11, 2009 15:41:42 GMT -5
To be fair to 'em, Catholics tend to come of better because the actual blood 'n' thunder Catholics mainly end up as clergy. The "laity", as they call it, is pretty well purged of objectionable nutters on that account. Protestant sects, particularly those deriving from Calvinist, puritan roots have less in the way of churchmen and heirarchy, so there's a certain element of every man being a preacher in some of them.
You can see the same sorting algorithm of religiosity/Fuckwittery in other large-scale sects with relatively large numbers of trained, appointed clergy, like Anglicans (Episcopalian), some flavours of Islam &c.
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Post by MaybeNever on Nov 11, 2009 16:23:23 GMT -5
I'm fascinated by Catholic Indians. QUIT DEFYING MY PRECONCEPTIONS!
I was raised Catholic, and my experiences with them mesh pretty well with id82's analysis. Catholics, as a religion, have had their backs broken once before. The most crucial thing to have come out of the Reformation, I think, was the Counter-reformation, which actually sought to address problems within Catholicism. Few religions have had to do that, and I think we see consequences of that process even today.
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Post by Tiger on Nov 11, 2009 16:35:40 GMT -5
I was raised Catholic, and my experiences with them mesh pretty well with id82's analysis. Catholics, as a religion, have had their backs broken once before. The most crucial thing to have come out of the Reformation, I think, was the Counter-reformation, which actually sought to address problems within Catholicism. Few religions have had to do that, and I think we see consequences of that process even today. Given the current actions of the Church leadership, I have a hard time believing that the relative tolerance exhibited by the faith's adherents is the result of a reorganization that happened centuries ago. |
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Post by MaybeNever on Nov 11, 2009 16:41:09 GMT -5
I don't mean that the Counter-reformation itself caused any kind of modern tolerance, but that the religion had to in some general sense incorporate the idea of reform and responsiveness to external and internal pressures rather than simply barreling on ahead and punishing those who disagree. That's the element that I think persisted, moderating to some extent the actions of the church, if not every particular leader in it.
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Post by Old Viking on Nov 11, 2009 16:43:20 GMT -5
Your mother is an exceptional person.
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Post by dantesvirgil on Nov 11, 2009 18:21:38 GMT -5
Your mother is an exceptional person. You're in rare form tonight. Birthday afterglow? |
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Post by coyote on Nov 11, 2009 19:05:46 GMT -5
Your mother is an exceptional person. Father's sister. Aunt. but thanks anyway  |
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