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Post by devilschaplain2 on Nov 17, 2009 16:22:06 GMT -5
Well, I've befriended several people from the Christian group on campus and for I while I've been under the impression that they were all fairly liberal about what the Bible says. I mean, they didn't seem like judgmental or homophobic or otherwise bigoted people. Hell, they can't stand the horrible street preacher that comes to my campus and tried their best to distance themselves from him. So around the time that Prop 1 passed in Maine, I changed my Facebook profile picture to one comparing anti-same sex marriage laws to anti-miscegenation laws. One of the girls from this group recently posted a comment saying that the Bible doesn't command this type of behavior (that is, racism and the desire to keep different races separate). I told her that the point was really that they used the same justification in one of the old court cases on interracial marriage. The judge in the case stated that if God wanted other races to marry he wouldn't have placed them on separate continents. My friend responds by saying that things like the Mark of Cain, the Curse of Ham and the Tower of Babel story which were used to justify racism and slavery were in the Old Testament and were superceded by New Testament law, so my comparison isn't valid. I responded by saying, well the anti-gay laws are in the Old Testament as well (Leviticus). Then she answered by saying those same portions are in the New Testament as well. I was actually stunned by what she was saying. How could she distance herself from that scumbag preacher and go on about how God loves everyone and then follow up with essentially saying, "Yeah the New Testament is just as homophobic and that's what I follow" is beyond me. I mean I'm not even mad, I'm pretty much just heartbroken by this. Even worse is that I really, really like this friend of hers, and I could never like her that way if she also holds these views. This. Sucks.
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Post by David D.G. on Nov 17, 2009 16:39:38 GMT -5
Well, I've befriended several people from the Christian group on campus and for I while I've been under the impression that they were all fairly liberal about what the Bible says. I mean, they didn't seem like judgmental or homophobic or otherwise bigoted people. Hell, they can't stand the horrible street preacher that comes to my campus and tried their best to distance themselves from him. So around the time that Prop 1 passed in Maine, I changed my Facebook profile picture to one comparing anti-same sex marriage laws to anti-miscegenation laws. One of the girls from this group recently posted a comment saying that the Bible doesn't command this type of behavior (that is, racism and the desire to keep different races separate). I told her that the point was really that they used the same justification in one of the old court cases on interracial marriage. The judge in the case stated that if God wanted other races to marry he wouldn't have placed them on separate continents. My friend responds by saying that things like the Mark of Cain, the Curse of Ham and the Tower of Babel story which were used to justify racism and slavery were in the Old Testament and were superceded by New Testament law, so my comparison isn't valid. I responded by saying, well the anti-gay laws are in the Old Testament as well (Leviticus). Then she answered by saying those same portions are in the New Testament as well. I was actually stunned by what she was saying. How could she distance herself from that scumbag preacher and go on about how God loves everyone and then follow up with essentially saying, "Yeah the New Testament is just as homophobic and that's what I follow. I mean I'm not even mad, I'm pretty much just heartbroken by this. Even worse is that I really, really like this friend of hers, and I could never like her that way if she also holds these views. This. Sucks. This is just one more example demonstrating what George Bernard Shaw said, which as I recall went something like this: "No Christian ever thinks that the Bible means what it says. He is always convinced that it says what he means." ~David D.G. |
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Post by cagoguy on Nov 17, 2009 16:41:08 GMT -5
I have several old high school friends that are moderately religious and that is fine, but I would never get into a relationship with one. You have to be extra careful in college with religious types, because even though they can be cool and reasonable on many things, it is very likely that they will become more conservative and religious once they leave college.
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Post by HonestlyNow on Nov 17, 2009 16:54:00 GMT -5
I have several old high school friends that are moderately religious and that is fine, but I would never get into a relationship with one. You have to be extra careful in college with religious types, because even though they can be cool and reasonable on many things, it is very likely that they will become more conservative and religious once they leave college. I'd have to second this opinion, as I've had the experience of knowing many more liberal-minded, fun and open christians in college, but now that they're out, they've decided that it's time for them to "grow up" and take on the mantle of conservatism that they left off while they were "sowing their oats" in their "wild" college years...both physically and mentally speaking. For me personally it's been rather offputting...though I still chat with them from time to time, we're not good friends like we used to be... |
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Nov 17, 2009 17:15:42 GMT -5
I have several old high school friends that are moderately religious and that is fine, but I would never get into a relationship with one. You have to be extra careful in college with religious types, because even though they can be cool and reasonable on many things, it is very likely that they will become more conservative and religious once they leave college. I'd have to second this opinion, as I've had the experience of knowing many more liberal-minded, fun and open christians in college, but now that they're out, they've decided that it's time for them to "grow up" and take on the mantle of conservatism that they left off while they were "sowing their oats" in their "wild" college years...both physically and mentally speaking. For me personally it's been rather offputting...though I still chat with them from time to time, we're not good friends like we used to be... I suppose people should bear in mind the fact that I've never been in a relationship, ever. And I'm not even saying I'm close to dating her, just that if she felt that way about other people because of what the Bible said, I wouldn't be able to stomach being near her. |
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Post by HonestlyNow on Nov 17, 2009 17:20:43 GMT -5
I'd have to second this opinion, as I've had the experience of knowing many more liberal-minded, fun and open christians in college, but now that they're out, they've decided that it's time for them to "grow up" and take on the mantle of conservatism that they left off while they were "sowing their oats" in their "wild" college years...both physically and mentally speaking. For me personally it's been rather offputting...though I still chat with them from time to time, we're not good friends like we used to be... I suppose people should bear in mind the fact that I've never been in a relationship, ever. And I'm not even saying I'm close to dating her, just that if she felt that way about other people because of what the Bible said, I wouldn't be able to stomach being near her. and we're sayin'...or at least, I'm sayin'...if she does feel this way now...look out because it might even get a smidge worse when she's done with college...at least, this has been my experience... just as a thought to bear in mind, even if you're not close to dating her, in general... |
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Post by Thejebusfire on Nov 17, 2009 21:44:51 GMT -5
Did you tell her that the term homosexual wasn't added into the new testament until the middle of the last century?
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Nov 17, 2009 21:53:29 GMT -5
Did you tell her that the term homosexual wasn't added into the new testament until the middle of the last century? Well, I guess I've gotten tired of arguing that the New Testament is either silent about gays or favorable toward them. I don't believe in the Bible and I don't use it as a moral guide, and I just don't think I can convince an evangelical Christian who thinks she has the most powerful being in the universe on her side that she's wrong about this. And while the Bible never explicitly says "homosexual", it does say "men who lie with men" and all that garbage, and when you say, "Well that was the OLD Testament" they just respond with some crap about God's "moral law" being carried over to the New Testament or some such nonsense...I still don't understand how I meet so few Christians who support gay rights, especially in NY. |
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Post by Rat Of Steel on Nov 17, 2009 22:22:06 GMT -5
Tell them that the Ten Commandments--y'know, those rules that fundies want to see engraved on monuments on the lawn of every courthouse in the country--are in the Old Testament, too, but not the New Testament. In fact, Jesus gave the people only two commandments to live by: with all your heart, love God, and love your neighbor.
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Post by Paradox on Nov 18, 2009 9:17:37 GMT -5
Did you tell her that the term homosexual wasn't added into the new testament until the middle of the last century? Well, I guess I've gotten tired of arguing that the New Testament is either silent about gays or favorable toward them. I don't believe in the Bible and I don't use it as a moral guide, and I just don't think I can convince an evangelical Christian who thinks she has the most powerful being in the universe on her side that she's wrong about this. And while the Bible never explicitly says "homosexual", it does say "men who lie with men" and all that garbage, and when you say, "Well that was the OLD Testament" they just respond with some crap about God's "moral law" being carried over to the New Testament or some such nonsense...I still don't understand how I meet so few Christians who support gay rights, especially in NY. It does say those things. But that was two thousand years ago. Morals and social standards change over time. And it is clear by now that those anti-gay attitudes conflict with what I would view as the central message of Christ, which is to love other people. You've got to have priorties. I'm not claiming the Bible is perfect. It was written by men, and it reflects the values of its time. It doesn't say anything against slavery for instance. But many of the morals and principals in it have also been used to oppose slavery. It contains something worthwile. But it's not infallable and never has been. Laws against gay marriage are comperable to laws against interracial marriage, and will likely be viewed as such by the large majority of the population within my lifetime. |
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Post by rookie on Nov 18, 2009 13:54:43 GMT -5
Tell them that the Ten Commandments--y'know, those rules that fundies want to see engraved on monuments on the lawn of every courthouse in the country--are in the Old Testament, too, but not the New Testament. In fact, Jesus gave the people only two commandments to live by: with all your heart, love God, and love your neighbor. Nice. Only thing is that no True Christian (royalty check is in the mail) cares about some "rules" that some jerkwater carpenter came up with. If Paul didn't say it, it ain't Godly. |
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Post by Rat Of Steel on Nov 18, 2009 15:35:52 GMT -5
If Paul didn't say it, it ain't Godly. Yeah, that sums up quite nicely what Christianity actually IS all about.  |
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Nov 18, 2009 17:45:24 GMT -5
Tell them that the Ten Commandments--y'know, those rules that fundies want to see engraved on monuments on the lawn of every courthouse in the country--are in the Old Testament, too, but not the New Testament. In fact, Jesus gave the people only two commandments to live by: with all your heart, love God, and love your neighbor. Nice. Only thing is that no True Christian (royalty check is in the mail) cares about some "rules" that some jerkwater carpenter came up with. If Paul didn't say it, it ain't Godly. *sigh* Yep, pretty much... |
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Post by Old Viking on Nov 18, 2009 20:02:34 GMT -5
Jesus said he was not here to change the OT laws, but to uphold them. And woe be unto your ass if you neglect any one of them.
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Post by tygerarmy on Nov 18, 2009 20:20:59 GMT -5
This guy at work UPS, not the Army has views similar to my sister; tried to find that thread but I failed, that Jesus is the only way to heaven.
He doesn't drink, smoke, use drugs or do anything bad. But it is disappointing when a person is so readily able to condemn so many to hell. Used many of the arguments I did with my sis and it's easier to call someone on bull when it's in person and not via im. The only difference is that he doesn't believing being gay gets you a ticket to hell because he is. Which is all the more infuriating. In our discussions I've destroyed all the myths he believes about atheists, like devil worship, etc
My advice is to talk about it. They'll either disagree with you and say you are going to hell for not accepting their Jesus, call you a heathen and never talk to you again or you may cause them to re-examine their world views.
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