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Post by Dragon Zachski on Nov 30, 2009 19:55:28 GMT -5
The Santa myth, as it exists right now, has some harm. Santa rewards good boys and girls with presents, punishes bad boys and girls with coal, knows everything you do, and somehow manages to destroy the laws of physics.
In essence, he's the Bible-God repackaged with less eternal consequences. But he's still a tool to keep children in line because they want presents.
This is the entirely wrong attitude. Forgive me for sounding like a cheesy Christmas special, but Christmas isn't shouldn't be about presents, but giving. I want to take it back from the commercialization that has happened. "Buy presents! You only have 300 days until Christmas!"
Instead, here's what I think should be done with the Santa myth as well as the whole perspective on Christmas itself. Santa shouldn't give presents and coal as reward and punishment. It should be about the joy of giving itself. I dunno, maybe in the myth, he makes it his life goal to make all the children of the world happy, and to show the "naughty" children that giving is more important than having through example.
Also, part of the myth should explain that Santa isn't real. But at the same time, it isn't meaningless just because he's imaginary. There are good lessons that can be learned from a slightly modified Santa myth, such as giving to the people you care about and are close to, even if the gift is just time.
...
Boy, I'm 21 and I'm already thinking of how to explain things to my possible future children. I want Christmas to be "magical" for them, not some grubby "gimme my PS3!" grab-fest.
Short of "doing away with it entirely" (which I think is a waste of a good myth), what are some suggestions you guys have?
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Post by discoberry on Nov 30, 2009 20:00:57 GMT -5
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Post by Vene on Nov 30, 2009 20:07:42 GMT -5
I just find it wrong that parents and society in general finds it okay to routinely lie to children.
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Post by Yaezakura on Nov 30, 2009 20:09:05 GMT -5
Well, the version I'm most familiar with comes from some Christmas movie I saw several years ago. I totally forget the name of it, unfortunately. Kinda wish I could see it again.
If I remember right, Nick was a boy who grew up in a forest, cared for by magical creatures and elves and such. He spent most of his adult life making toys for the poor children of the local village, which he gave out every year in the winter. He eventually grew old, however, and got slower and weaker. But, as a reward for his lifetime of generosity, he was granted immortality (I forget by who... damn I wish I could see that movie again...). This revitalized the old man, who continued his work of making toys for the needy children of the world, to bring a spark of happiness to their lives.
It was a really inspiring take on the story, I think. It was a Santa who wasn't a reward and punishment system, but a figure of caring and kindness to the less fortunate.
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Post by Caitshidhe on Nov 30, 2009 20:42:46 GMT -5
I know some people who told their children that THEY reported on their behaviour to Santa, rather than having Santa be watching them all the time to see what they were up to. Seems an okay alternative to "SANTA'S WATCHIN'!"
But then again, I'm one of those monsters who doesn't mind that people tell their kids that Santa exists. Eventually--sometimes quite quickly--they figure out it's not real but none of the magic is gone. My parents told me Santa was real. I don't think I ever really believed them, but it didn't stop Giftmas from being fun.
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Post by Old Viking on Nov 30, 2009 20:43:03 GMT -5
The world confronts weightier problems.
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Post by Mira on Nov 30, 2009 21:04:46 GMT -5
Our mother never told us Santa was real, she'd never answer if you asked her. So, we never were really into the Santa thing and I don't think it did us any harm or ruin our innocence.
Chrissmiss has never been a magical thing to us, but it's always been great. We tell eachother exactly what we want, and we get those things (often times even help with the shopping.) We've pretty much torn down chrissmiss tradition, but I still look forward to it. The Santa crap doesn't really add anything in my opinion.
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Post by wmdkitty on Nov 30, 2009 21:10:41 GMT -5
I just find it wrong that parents and society in general finds it okay to routinely lie to children. THIS. You should tailor explanations to a child's age and level of comprehension, you wouldn't go into explicit details of sex, conception, and birth with a five year old, but LYING -- i.e. "the stork" -- is right out. All that does is teach that it's okay to lie. ...it was the first example to come in to my head. |
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Post by kristine on Nov 30, 2009 21:32:17 GMT -5
just for argument's sake...  I like the idea of Santa and think that myth makes for a FINE god example. It starts out being magical and you never look for the reality of it until you start getting older and notice that you only get the stuff your parents find out about, then one day you find something in the garage or closet or under the bed you weren't supposed to see and the secret gets out. At first your disappointed that the magic isn't real and the world is a darker place than you were lead to believe but then you see the magic in younger kids eyes and you get to feel like you passed some sort of rite of passage into growing up- your in on an adult secret. You get to see the world as it really is, without the emotional training wheels you might need as a child to make you feel safe. I think a lot of modern societies have lost those rites of passage - (or the timing is all screwed up) - especially for the younger kids. As for the materialism - that is pushed a lot by retailers trying to take advantage of a traditional time for giving gifts - but I grew up with the whole Santa myth and, although I like giving gifts, some of the more important things is that I remember my friends and family during the season. It wasn't always that way...but I grew up and found that, that part of the season is what I like best. When I was 6 yrs old it was the presents for me that magically appeared under the tree; when I was 13, it was expressing myself by how I wrapped the presents or decorated the Christmas cookies and if everybody got me something to show they cared; When I was 20 it was what parties was I invited to and if I could pick out the perfect gift (within my budget) for each person...Materialism is fun - It shouldn't be the main thing the holidays revolve around but, depending on how far you take it, it can still be part of the season. |
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Post by Yaezakura on Nov 30, 2009 21:50:40 GMT -5
I never really understood the whole "ZOMG I could never lie to my kids and say Santa is real" mentality. Lying is a part of life. No one can be honest 100% of the time. You shouldn't even try to teach your kids never to lie, simply when it's appropriate to lie and when not to. Sort of like sex, when you try to forbid an action instead of teach when said action is appropriate, the action becomes an obsession because it's taboo.
That said, I really don't see the harm in things like Santa and the Tooth Fairy. They're a bit of childhood fancy, things that stimulate a child's imagination. I never felt cheated when I learned these things weren't real. I had more of a "Hah, I beat the system and learned something new" mentality. Finding out I could out-wit my parents and learn something they were trying to keep secret was rather empowering.
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Post by caseagainstfaith on Nov 30, 2009 21:54:43 GMT -5
just for argument's sake... I like the idea of Santa and think that myth makes for a FINE god example. It starts out being magical and you never look for the reality of it until you start getting older and notice that you only get the stuff your parents find out about, then one day you find something in the garage or closet or under the bed you weren't supposed to see and the secret gets out. At first your disappointed that the magic isn't real and the world is a darker place than you were lead to believe but then you see the magic in younger kids eyes and you get to feel like you passed some sort of rite of passage into growing up- your in on an adult secret. You get to see the world as it really is, without the emotional training wheels you might need as a child to make you feel safe. I think a lot of modern societies have lost those rites of passage - (or the timing is all screwed up) - especially for the younger kids. As for the materialism - that is pushed a lot by retailers trying to take advantage of a traditional time for giving gifts - but I grew up with the whole Santa myth and, although I like giving gifts, some of the more important things is that I remember my friends and family during the season. It wasn't always that way...but I grew up and found that, that part of the season is what I like best. When I was 6 yrs old it was the presents for me that magically appeared under the tree; when I was 13, it was expressing myself by how I wrapped the presents or decorated the Christmas cookies and if everybody got me something to show they cared; When I was 20 it was what parties was I invited to and if I could pick out the perfect gift (within my budget) for each person...Materialism is fun - It shouldn't be the main thing the holidays revolve around but, depending on how far you take it, it can still be part of the season. ^-Ditto for me. Couldn't of said it better myself. |
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Post by valsa on Nov 30, 2009 22:19:32 GMT -5
I’ll definitely be telling my kids all about Santa. Mostly because I absolutely loved him as a child.
I can still remember when I was about 7 years old or so. I was more-or-less starting to catch on to the fact that Santa wasn’t real. Then, on Christmas day, I woke up to find a beautiful, fully assembled Barbie dream pool sitting on a table by our Christmas tree. The magic and wonder of finding that gift carried my belief of Santa on for about another 2 years. And I can't really think of anything else from my childhood that instilled that same sense of "Wow" in me.
However, I don’t think I’ll tell my kids the whole Santa-gives-coal-to-bad-kids part of the myth, as I was never told that.
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Post by meshakhad on Nov 30, 2009 23:36:24 GMT -5
I plan to tell my kids that Santa exists, and see how long it takes for them to figure the truth out.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 1, 2009 1:54:10 GMT -5
Can I just say that I'm rather shocked by the responses in this thread?
Not negatively shocked, either. Just... shocked.
I guess I just never really experienced it. I was raised right from the start knowing that Santa didn't exist. However, one year, I asked if we could pretend he did exist. And we did.
It was fun. I want to make Santa a positive example to follow... the whole thing about giving being the most important part of Christmas. I want him to be a bedtime story that makes them feel good about themselves for doing the right thing, not worry because they might do the wrong thing.
While understanding the nature and purpose of lies is an important lesson in and of itself, at least at that young age, I think they need at least one person they know they can trust.
Well, I think there's a way I can word it literally while still keeping it a metaphor, gradually easing the child into the fact that Santa doesn't exist. Since, after all, fairy tales are meant to be told as if they were literal...
"Do you want to know how Santa manages to give gifts to all the children of the world so quickly? Because he's a part of us all. The north pole is right here *points at child's heart* and right here as well *points at own heart*. When we give to each other, we help Santa spread happiness through the world. Whether that gift is the gift of time, or a present to give a loved one what they want... it's still spreading Santa's joy throughout the world!"
...How's that?
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Post by Elly on Dec 1, 2009 1:55:23 GMT -5
Giving and presents aren't exclusive from each other. If you give, the person you give to is going to "get", and vice versa. I say concentrate on the goal of everyone giving something to someone.
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