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Post by Ian1732 on Jan 8, 2010 15:30:13 GMT -5
Well then, take my earlier statement and replace the Scopes Monkey Trial with that one... I think I'm just going to leave the smart comments to you guys, next time.
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Post by MaybeNever on Jan 8, 2010 15:40:04 GMT -5
On the other hand, Epperson v. Arkansas was hardly as publicized or as spectacular. Scopes was a loss, legally, as it should have been - Scopes the teacher had broken the law, after all. It did, however, have the effect of revealing a divide in Christianity that was actually fairly ancient but had been swept under the rug in the US for a number of decades. Specifically, the division between Christians who accepted the validity of science, and Christians who denied science where it interfered with their theology. Many of our modern political conflicts come about in large part from this very sort of divide, especially debates over abortion, creation v. evolution (still, remarkably), and marriage equality.
So, yes, Scopes was a loss, but it also did set the stage for the painful but ultimately necessary competitions between science and religion in the later 20th century.
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Post by Tiger on Jan 8, 2010 15:47:28 GMT -5
On the other hand, Epperson v. Arkansas was hardly as publicized or as spectacular. Scopes was a loss, legally, as it should have been - Scopes the teacher had broken the law, after all. As was the case in Lawrence v. Texas and every other trial that resulted in the overturning of an unconstitutional law.
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Post by MaybeNever on Jan 8, 2010 15:52:40 GMT -5
Allow me to rephrase. Scopes (the man) was rightly punished, as he had broken the upheld law.
Edit: the case was also one specifically orchestrated by the ACLU and Scopes himself to test the law in question. They gambled and lost, albeit inexplicably. Brave, but the cost of failure was obvious. Ultimately, though, the case's legacy was not about the ruling against Scopes, really.
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Post by Vene on Jan 8, 2010 19:28:35 GMT -5
Err... No. But it still did lead to Evolution over Intelligent Design in schools, right? Intelligent Design didn't even exist back then.
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Post by wackadoodle on Jan 8, 2010 19:39:20 GMT -5
Err... No. But it still did lead to Evolution over Intelligent Design in schools, right? Intelligent Design didn't even exist back then. At least back then they were honest about wanting to teach their religion as a fact. None of this 'teaching alternative theories' bullshit.
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Post by kristine on Jan 8, 2010 20:06:53 GMT -5
...and in reference to prop 8 - I think the only standing they will have is religious dogma.
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Jan 8, 2010 20:33:02 GMT -5
Err... No. But it still did lead to Evolution over Intelligent Design in schools, right? Intelligent Design didn't even exist back then. Yeah that was a late 90's/early 00's thing.
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Post by Lady Renae on Jan 9, 2010 3:10:21 GMT -5
Is no one else disturbed by the comment made by the judge in question that he wants to address everything all at once? Feels to me like Lucy lining up the football...
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Jan 9, 2010 8:05:13 GMT -5
Is no one else disturbed by the comment made by the judge in question that he wants to address everything all at once? Feels to me like Lucy lining up the football... Not really, he seems sympathetic. Like when he challenged the lawyer for the Prop 8 side to come up with a reason why gay marriages harmed the marriages of heterosexual couples. The way I saw his attitude was more of, "Okay, we're going to settle this once and for all and prove gays are a suspect class according to U.S. law."
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Post by deikuzutsu on Jan 9, 2010 16:02:32 GMT -5
I think we can end world hunger with all the word salad that will be spewed by the fundies.
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Post by Bluefinger on Jan 9, 2010 17:43:31 GMT -5
I think we can end world hunger with all the word salad that will be spewed by the fundies. I'm more partial to fundie BAWWWgers. Especially with bacon and cheese, with just a bit of tomato ketchup. So tasty... dangnabit, now I'm hungry. *goes to raid the kitchen*
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Post by Amaranth on Jan 10, 2010 2:55:08 GMT -5
Intelligent Design didn't even exist back then. So...nothing's changed. *rimshot* I'm hoping for Prop 8 to get taken out, beaten with a sack of doorknobs, and dumped in the Pacific.
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Post by Lady Renae on Jan 10, 2010 3:01:33 GMT -5
Does anyone have a good link for this stuff?
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Jan 10, 2010 8:59:14 GMT -5
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