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Post by John E on Apr 8, 2010 1:57:14 GMT -5
You do realize that high school textbooks are not the be-all and end-all of history textbooks, right? And you do realize that textbooks, even at the college level, are not the be-all and end-all of academic literature, right? ... Right? ...except, for most people, that's where their study of history ends. That's the point I'm trying to make here. ... except you act as though high school textbooks are all there is to the "mainstream" study of history, and that anyone who doesn't agree with you couldn't possibly have read anything other than school textbooks. |
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Post by rookie on Apr 8, 2010 8:09:25 GMT -5
...except, for most people, that's where their study of history ends. That's the point I'm trying to make here. For the ones who don't really care about history, other than passing out of the damn class, it doesn't matter what sources you pull, they are not going to care. For example, I don't like Transformers. Didn't like them in the '80s, don't like them now. I don't care how good your fanfic is, I'm not going to read it because I don't like it. Those who do like history may read the works you've brought up, but you can bet those are the type of people to fact check. One way to do that is to read other books written by other people and see what adds up. They can and probably will draw their own conclusions. My point is, you can't make people like history enough to read about the roll of the Church of Latter Day Saints in the settlement of the United States past the Mississippi River. |
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Post by skyfire on Apr 8, 2010 8:46:47 GMT -5
You're assuming that I'm only studying LDS sources. ... Of the four I've mentioned thus far, Woods' book is the only one I paid cover for. Hell, most of my actual LDS works came used, too. Dude, how exactly do you go from "I study many sources" to "I get all my stuff 2nd hand"?! I mean don't get me wrong, being able to sniff out a bargain is a wonderful thing, but ummm, I fail to see the relevance to this particular discussion. I'm so broke that I don't have the luxury of picking and choosing what sources I get my information from. As such, I have to get my stuff from all sides if I'm going to get any information at all. |
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Post by Jodie on Apr 8, 2010 11:50:58 GMT -5
Try looking at the relations with the individual tribes and leaders. For example, Walkara's band of Timpanogos Utes were friendly towards the Mormon settlers and Walkara himself was fond of the religion itself; it wasn't until after non-Mormon settlers began to move in and made dicks of themselves that Walkara took to raiding, and even then he ended up signing a peace treaty in short order. Solomon Carvalho, a travel photographer who was recuperating in Utah after falling gravely ill, was a part of Young's personal envoy and recorded the matter. Dude. Did you even read the link? The Mormon settlers started killing the Native Americans after taking their land and resources. The Mormon settlers. And this link is the offical government webpage of Utah. History revison. You are doing it. |
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Post by rookie on Apr 8, 2010 12:56:59 GMT -5
You know, Skyfire, I didn't know all that stuff about Mormons before I read your links. Tell me, do they issue you guys red capes in the temples? Where do you learn to leap tall buildings and stop powerful locomotives? I mean, according to your your research, the western hemisphere- no, the very world itself- owes you a debt of gratitude. It kinda makes you wonder how humanity has managed to not trip over our collective shoelace and fall off a cliff before Smitty showed up.
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Post by dantesvirgil on Apr 8, 2010 13:44:58 GMT -5
You're assuming that I'm only studying LDS sources. I'm not. No, I'm not assuming you've only looked at those sources. But you're certainly not studying those sources at all. You're adept at coming up with your dogma, but your ability to decode and analyze history is severely lacking and that is obvious to anyone who has ever spent time with a history book of any sort. |
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Post by Oriet on Apr 8, 2010 14:05:41 GMT -5
Dude, how exactly do you go from "I study many sources" to "I get all my stuff 2nd hand"?! I mean don't get me wrong, being able to sniff out a bargain is a wonderful thing, but ummm, I fail to see the relevance to this particular discussion. I'm so broke that I don't have the luxury of picking and choosing what sources I get my information from. As such, I have to get my stuff from all sides if I'm going to get any information at all. First off, you're not getting your info from all sides, as you admit in this very post you have a limited selection to peruse. Secondly, because of said limitations you hardly have a large selection from which to compare, verify, and other ways ensure the information is in any way valid. On what basis, then, do you feel you have any claim to authority on this? And no, just because something is "controversial" does not mean it is in any way valid. |
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Post by skyfire on Apr 8, 2010 15:38:03 GMT -5
And no, just because something is "controversial" does not mean it is in any way valid. Like I said - It's taken how long for people here in the US to admit to some of the worst fuck-ups ever? Sometimes, things in history are controversial simply because they force people to admit that bad things happened. As for your bit about authority, what I do have comes from having actually studied matters. |
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Post by RavynousHunter on Apr 8, 2010 15:41:48 GMT -5
Yeah, they still have yet to admit to letting me live long enough to see adulthood. Bad move there, America.
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Post by Napoleon the Clown on Apr 8, 2010 21:48:12 GMT -5
And no, just because something is "controversial" does not mean it is in any way valid. Like I said - It's taken how long for people here in the US to admit to some of the worst fuck-ups ever? Sometimes, things in history are controversial simply because they force people to admit that bad things happened. As for your bit about authority, what I do have comes from having actually studied matters. Pot, meet Kettle. |
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Post by John E on Apr 8, 2010 22:45:21 GMT -5
Like I said - It's taken how long for people here in the US to admit to some of the worst fuck-ups ever? Sometimes, things in history are controversial simply because they force people to admit that bad things happened. Sometimes. And sometimes (more often, I'd wager) things are controversial because there's little or no evidence to support them, they're massive exaggerations, or they're just plain made up. |
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Post by RavynousHunter on Apr 8, 2010 23:04:56 GMT -5
Like the Bible?
(badum-tsh!)
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