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Post by daytheist on Aug 7, 2010 15:08:11 GMT -5
Hi, new member here. Figured that if I needed some assistance with the JW's that you all were the right kind to talk to.
Anyways, a few days ago (on Tuesday I believe) I got two JW's knock on my door while I was waiting to head to work. So I talked with them a while, letting them do all the talking to get an understanding of what their arguments were, and took the 'Watchtower' book that they give out. I also go another one on Evolution.
So I was just hoping that any of you guys versed in dealing with JW arguments might be able to give me a hand. Unfortunately I do not have the publications with me right now, but I will be home in 24 hours and will give more detailed points then.
I decided on playing nice with them last time, but once I get some arguments in my head for them, I plan on being anything but kind.
Help is appreciated.
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Post by Rime on Aug 7, 2010 15:50:25 GMT -5
Well, if you're annoyed and don't want to talk to them any more, just say you're an apostate. If they think you've walked out of the JW movement, they'll consider you to be hopeless and never bother you again.
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Post by matante on Aug 7, 2010 16:30:20 GMT -5
You don't have to talk to them if you don't like them. Planning on being "anything but kind" to people who will go away if you tell them to sounds a little petty. If you enjoy debating, I strongly suggest doing it cordially.
If you want to talk about evolution, (since you mention the booklet they left you on the subject) discuss it within the fields you know about. Lets say you have a good basic knowledge in biology, but not in chemistry or astrophysics, then tell them beforehand you want to keep abiogenesis and big bang theory out of it since it's not the part you feel competent in and you wouldn't be able to weight their arguments fairly. If they won't, then they're not debating honestly and the best thing to do with that is end the discussion.
It can be useful to visit some of the websites linked from the main page to know about the most common creationist arguments - it's good to know which are based on lies and which deserve a more intelligent answer.
If you're planning on arguing on their religion, and you admit you know little about it, well keep it about yourself more than about them: your moral code goes against it (ex. they don't socialise their children enough, they're pressured into refusing medical treatments that they may need, their treatment of apostates implies their strategy to keep members is intimidation, etc.) or your knowledge of reality is incompatible with their beliefs. Remember that since you are not versed into their beliefs, you do not understand them better than themselves; you understand why they are not YOUR beliefs.
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Post by Meshakhad on Aug 7, 2010 17:04:08 GMT -5
I haven't had to deal with JWs personally. If I ever do, I do not plan on being anything but polite.
If I'm busy, I'll tell them. I'm not above taking their literature, reading it once, then throwing it in the recycle bin.
If I'm in the mood for a debate, then I'll debate. I'm more likely to get into a comparison of beliefs than trying to disprove theirs.
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Post by Art Vandelay on Aug 7, 2010 17:27:08 GMT -5
...Am I the only one who keeps reading "JW" as "Jew"?
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Post by Her3tiK on Aug 7, 2010 21:21:43 GMT -5
Tell them their belief that only the "true believers" get to Heaven is a terrible way to think, and that they're horrible people for being perfectly okay with the fact that they believe billions of people will suffer while they themselves are in paradise. That the fact that they teach children these things is reprehensible, and their trust of a voice in their head is a symptom of serious mental issues.
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Post by faythofdragons on Aug 7, 2010 22:06:03 GMT -5
A friend of mine once answered Mormons at the door while screwing his boyfriend over the kitchen counter. They never came back.
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brainy
Junior Member
Gay, atheist, psychologist. The fundie trifecta!
Posts: 63
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Post by brainy on Aug 8, 2010 0:07:45 GMT -5
They're always afraid of my big doggie and don't stick around. He is harmless, but I'm not telling them that. If there comes a day when Mr. Boofer is not around to be my fake guard dog I don't mind telling them that I respect their beliefs and ask that they respect mind since we're having this conversation at my house. If they plan on being disrespectful, doors can be closed on feet if the situation warrants it.  |
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Post by terri on Aug 8, 2010 0:58:19 GMT -5
Well, if you're annoyed and don't want to talk to them any more, just say you're an apostate. If they think you've walked out of the JW movement, they'll consider you to be hopeless and never bother you again. Or tell them you were disfellowshipped (JW-speak for "excommunicated"). They will clam up and never speak to you again. My mom was a JW, as I mentioned elsewhere. When I was a kid, she dragged me along to her door-to-door sessions and I hated every second of it. Was the book you were given called "Did Man Get Here by Evolution or by Creation?" I recall that was one of the books Mom had. Perhaps the JW tome with the highest distribution was the little blue book, "The Truth That Leads to Eternal Life." Mom had several copies that she handed out or sold. (Being "in the Truth" was JW-speak for being a full fledged Witness.) Most Kingdom Halls (JW-speak for their churches) keep scrupulous records of neighborhoos and homes they visited, Watchtowers passed out, etc. At least that's how it was when Mom was active. |
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Post by Julian on Aug 8, 2010 1:53:50 GMT -5
...Am I the only one who keeps reading "JW" as "Jew"? Well that explains the purple triangles... |
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Post by Napoleon the Clown on Aug 8, 2010 2:34:22 GMT -5
Try being polite about getting them to leave you alone before being a dick. They're not malicious about it. They're convinced they're doing good.
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Post by Old Viking on Aug 8, 2010 13:48:29 GMT -5
You did it right. A few polite words, take their magazine, bye-bye. Engaging them would be pointless -- like engaging flat earthers. I'd never tell them I respects their beliefs, but that's me.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Aug 8, 2010 17:33:11 GMT -5
I usually just politely but firmly tell them I'm not interested (saying "I'm an atheist" works well) and then ignore the door if they come back. They'll usually go away after that. A friend of mine once answered Mormons at the door while screwing his boyfriend over the kitchen counter. They never came back. At first, I read that as "screwing her boyfriend", which was awesome as it was, then re-read it and realized that it was even more awesome than I first realized. |
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Post by dantesvirgil on Aug 9, 2010 23:29:12 GMT -5
Tell them their belief that only the "true believers" get to Heaven is a terrible way to think, and that they're horrible people for being perfectly okay with the fact that they believe billions of people will suffer while they themselves are in paradise. That the fact that they teach children these things is reprehensible, and their trust of a voice in their head is a symptom of serious mental issues. They don't believe any of these things, actually. The true believers thing is somewhat true, but they don't necessarily define those ppl as having been contemporary JWs. They also do NOT believe that billions will suffer while they're in paradise; in fact, they're one of the few religions who do not have a belief about torture after Armageddon/death. They also never claim to hear voices in their heads, and if someone did, the others would most likely denounce it as demonic. Go in with these arguments and all you'll get is puzzled looks and then a lengthy explanation about how you don't know what they really believe. They'd just take it as a re-education opportunity. As to the OP, if you're wanting to debate evolution with them, you're going to be somewhat disappointed. They know very little about it, only what their Society tells them. They have a stock set of responses that they'll go with, and as long as you get past those, they'll just shrug it off and believe Satan has blinded you, lol. They'll go with the watchmaker metaphor and they'll bring up that some fossils were faked. That's about as far as 99.9% of them can get. Some of the brighter ones *might* try to talk about microevolution vs. evolution over millions of years -- but most likely not. |
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Post by dantesvirgil on Aug 9, 2010 23:31:05 GMT -5
Oh, the one other thing they like to trot out is how some scientists/biologists have made public statements about "marvelling" at the universe and not being able to imagine there is no God behind it.
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