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Post by Dragon Zachski on Apr 7, 2009 0:49:12 GMT -5
...Realize that this topic is heavily biased. Now that the redundant statement is out of the way...
...I've been thinking over the past few days. Many (if not most) of you probably already know this. But...
I don't think religion is necessarily the source of the stupidity of the Christian Fundies in America. It's Republicanism (not to be confused with Republicans), with which religion has become its tool.
Think about it. Jesus says give to the poor. Obama advocates tax breaks for the poor. Obama is the anti-Christ because Republicaism is against "socialism" (if only they knew how truly necessary it is to have a mix of socialism and capitalism). Republicanism wins out.
Jesus says love thy neighbor. Republicanism say that non-"Christians" (actually non-Republicanists, as there are Christians that, because they are democrats, are treated as bad as wiccans and satanists) are not to be trusted. Republicanism wins out.
Republicanism involves a lot of double-speak, too.
Republicanism is patriotism. "Democratism" (of which, since there are fanatics on the left, there is such a thing, but it's like an imp standing before a balrog... if anyone understands that) is trying to destroy America. (which it really isn't)
I'll admit that Christianity has its fair share of problems on its own without politics. But I don't see quotes from Christian Fundies from other countries, even though those countries have internet. Christian Fundies in Britain are almost an entirely different breed from Christian Fundies in America.
Also, another example. Islam, in the Middle East, has become the chains that bind the people. Government-sanctioned executions of woman who were rape victims... systematic hunting of "sexual deviants"... Muslims there, though especially the ones in government standing, are as fundie as they get. Now, Muslims in America... they tend to be not as insane. They seem to focus more on their own worship than anything else. Which may be why Christian Pastors have actually converted to Islam... because it's not so steepled in politics as Christianity is.
(Also note that when I say "Christianity in America", I also include Mormonism, mostly because, despite the different religious beliefs, it behaves very much like the American brand of Christianity regarding politics. The Church's involvement in Prop 8, for example)
Anyways, sorry for the kinda long read. If there any flaws in what I said, point them out, please.
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Post by antichrist on Apr 7, 2009 1:07:40 GMT -5
I don't even think that Republicanism is the source. I think Fundeism(sp?) and Republicanism are the products.
I think fear is the source; specifically culture shock. I think that society/technology moves way too fast for some people. They see those old 1950's TV shows and want to go back to a "simpler time".
Even in the Middle East, it was a case of the Fundies usurping more progressive people. Unfortunately it's spiraled out of control into another dark ages. Sucks to be them.
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Post by brendanjd on Apr 7, 2009 5:46:12 GMT -5
I'm gonna have to put some of the blame on television. Not all, but ever since the 1950's, television has becomethe new god for the unwashed masses. Literacy rates are falling like someone dropped third period french, but even a crack addict with 10 kids on welfare is gonna have a television.
It's used as a cheap mind numbing babysitter, and it gives kids unrealistic expectations and stunts them emotionally.
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Post by Undecided on Apr 7, 2009 5:55:55 GMT -5
Perhaps: a culture which favours absolute rules and beliefs over compromise, evidence and empathy?
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Post by rebelliousscot on Apr 7, 2009 6:06:11 GMT -5
I'm gonna have to put some of the blame on television. Not all, but ever since the 1950's, television has becomethe new god for the unwashed masses. Literacy rates are falling like someone dropped third period french, but even a crack addict with 10 kids on welfare is gonna have a television. It's used as a cheap mind numbing babysitter, and it gives kids unrealistic expectations and stunts them emotionally. To quote a song "What have we become? A comsuming machine in a useless regime. What you did expect? A generation raised by TV and taught to neglect." Protest the Hero - Just Defy |
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Post by Lady Renae on Apr 7, 2009 7:52:59 GMT -5
The other thing that has increased since the 1950s is working mothers. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but when both parents work they tend to spend less time... well... parenting. Churches are seen as a good substitute for parenting, and have been since long before television was even conceptualized. Additionally, parents are expecting teachers and friends and everyone except them to parent their kids for them since they're so busy. Parents just don't parent much anymore. It's sad, but true.
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Post by wisechild on Apr 7, 2009 12:11:13 GMT -5
It seemed that in the early Nineties, the time was ripe for increased intellectual curiosity, "hair band" style metal fell off the charts, and MTV actually had spoken word on their Unplugged show. It seemed that we wanted to get away from the Eighties. I'm sorry, Mentioning the rise and fall of music scenes may seem dubious, (especially if you like or dislike a certain style) but it looked like some people were making some sort of intellectual effort. It seemed we wanted to get away from something vapid - acid washed jeans, shopping malls and ugly eyeglass frames.
Two things happened in the Mid Nineties that set a downward media trend. The O.J. Simpson Trial, and The Telecommunications Act of 1996. The televised Simpson trial set an industry standard of keeping with one or two sensationalist news story, leaving people generally uninformed. Bill Clinton advocated for the fairness doctrine, but he signed the Telecommunications Act. This removed restrictions regarding media ownership. Music formats became risk averse, and the Right-Wing talk format was given total market saturation.
Some people have noticed the intellectual mindset of the Dittohead; They listen to Rush Limbaugh, they feel that they are more informed and possess the more intelligent point of view, and they also feel that they have reached it by themselves. It's like they have some sort of "Yogi Bear" syndrome. They think they are smarter than the average bear / redneck / Fundie / guy on the street, etc.
Recently, it has been discovered that eighty percent of the country has read only one book (or less) in the past year. I don't think you can find two book stores in a single shopping mall anymore. Yay! Big box stores.
I'm sure there are Baby Boomers who might recall things getting dumbed down between The Disco Era and the early Eighties. There is a Bill Hicks You Tube clip where he recalled things going south around 1980. MTV might also be responsible for the shortening of attention spans. I hope it's not all downhill, maybe next year some people will get their brain in gear in anticipation of a new decade.
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Post by antichrist on Apr 7, 2009 12:34:29 GMT -5
Just because someone hasn't sat down and "read a book" doesn't mean they don't read. Maybe they read technical journals, magazines, e-zines, etc. I had to think about whether or not I had read a book in the last year. Now that I think about it, yes I have, but my first response probably would of been no because I tend to jump from book to book looking for specific information. But I haven't sat down and read a novel in years.
Another issue is the internet. I believe at one time stupid people kept quiet. Maybe they looked at people around them and realized they weren't the brightest bulb, and that it may be best to keep their mouth shut and listen. Now, no matter how crazy your ideas, you can find an online community who will stroke your ego and tell you how smart you are.
As for the Big Box stores, I buy my books online or at a used bookstore. The books I read probably wouldn't be available in a regular bookstore because they're not that popular of a topic. Amazon/Chapters can carry a lot more variety than the old Coles books ever could. In fact, Coles (the one in the mall) is full of trashy novels that I have no interest in. Even the topics that I do have interest in, they don't carry the books that are indepth enough for my taste.
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Post by MaybeNever on Apr 7, 2009 18:02:26 GMT -5
I'm sorry, Mentioning the rise and fall of music scenes may seem dubious, (especially if you like or dislike a certain style) but it looked like some people were making some sort of intellectual effort. It seemed we wanted to get away from something vapid - acid washed jeans, shopping malls and ugly eyeglass frames. It doesn't seem dubious at all, really. Art (and even the most discordant cacophanous banshee howl of music, I'd say, is "art" of a sort) reflects the society at large. There's a reason European art throughout the ages has focused on Christianity, why the Romanticists of the 19th century were so, and why the European art of the 1920s is so hellish. I'd argue that this is really just consequent to the phenomenal growth in availability of information. This has been a long-term thing, but with the advent of radio people could, for the first time, get information from distant venues in a reasonable way; television continued it; and the explosive growth of the Internet only furthers a sort of overwhelming deluge of accessible information. And it does exactly that: overwhelms people. My guess is that, faced with such a massive overflow, people looked to have it all explained beforehand - humans are, at base, pretty intellectually lazy, and we love to drop things into heuristic processing instead of making discrete judgments about things. So if people can have someone tell them "oh, a housing crisis - it's the fault of those damn Democrats" or "educational standards are falling - it's obviously the fault of those damn Fundies" or whatever, obviously that's going to be a very attractive option. It takes effort to actually understand, and when there's SO MUCH to understand, people just throw in the towel. I expect that goes, to some degree or other, for everybody here at FSTDT as well, me included. Unfortunately this has the secondary effect that, having "made sense of the world", albeit at a tragically shallow level, these people tend to feel themselves wise or worldly and look with pity/scorn/distaste at their lesser brethren who still struggle to comprehend, especially, perhaps, when that struggle is based on the very real difficulties of understanding the complex nature of world events. This is something we often see from the Right - Limbaugh and O'Reilly are practically posterboys of this kind of thing - but it's common enough on the Left, and probably no less so, just less obvious, than on the Right. I wouldn't put too much stock in the decline of BOOK reading, because it's a medium that is no longer dominant as a means of conveying information. The Internet means that learning almost anything can be straight-up interactive, whether that's through some youtube video teaching people how to knit or about World War 2 or just e-mailing with your friend in New York who knows all about motorcycle maintenance. I still read a tremendous number of books, but that's because I love the tactile aspect. It's as much a carnal pleasure as it is a cerebral one, for me. I think this sort of "back in my day" nostalgia has been a part of every generation on Earth. I recall hearing about some ancient Greek writer lamenting on the weakness of the youth of his day - this was, of course, like 400 BC - and how things were going downhill et cetera et cetera. Just my CAN$0.02, which is no longer worth more than two US cents. |
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Post by Old Viking on Apr 8, 2009 15:52:15 GMT -5
Rank stupidity is endemic in our society, and it is far too late do do anything other than suffer the consequences.
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Post by captainhooker on Apr 8, 2009 16:58:25 GMT -5
laziness
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Post by renaissanceblonde on Apr 9, 2009 1:55:35 GMT -5
The source of stupidity in America is Americans.  *may, or may not, be kidding* |
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Post by wmdkitty on Apr 9, 2009 8:03:21 GMT -5
Stupidity is a cancer. We should do what we do to other forms of cancer -- excise what we can, and dump poisons on the rest.
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