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Post by Dragon Zachski on Sept 23, 2010 16:22:05 GMT -5
www.av1611.org/halloween.htmlHalf true. The veil is not between the world of the living and the dead, but between our world and "the other world." Or so the legend goes. Now, the souls of the dead were also believed to be released from the land of the dead (which exists on the other side of the veil) Mostly wrong. The costumes had two purposes. One was to tell the story through a dance around a bonfire about the other world and the spirits being released. The other was to hide from rotten human spirits that would reportedly destroy crops. WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG! The treats were left for regular spirits as a gift! Now, the practices that came after that during a merging of Catholic and Pagan cultures, in a much more modern time, were more along the lines of what this person described with the costumes and the appeasing evil spirits. I can assure you, that was actually the result of Christianity, not Paganism. Still no human sacrifices.WRONG! Animals were sacrificed, yes, as a gift to the gods, (thank Gaia we've evolved past that), but humans were not included among the animals sacrificed. No, it was a festival to celebrate the end of fall and a preparation for the winter months. It was a joyous occasion. lexluthorWRONG.gif Disclaimer: Actually, no one is actually sure if the Celts practiced human sacrifice. Romans were quite intimidated by them, and "history is written by the victors" after all. In any case, even on the chance that they did practice human sacrifice, cannibalism was most certainly NOT practiced. Furthermore, if it was practiced, it was prisoners that were sacrificed, not their own people. No better or worse than capital punishment.
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Post by ironbite on Sept 23, 2010 16:27:35 GMT -5
Oh wow. Just wow. Even Supernatural got it more right then these morons.
Ironbite-seriouslly stupid.
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Post by Thejebusfire on Sept 23, 2010 17:03:50 GMT -5
The bible had some pretty horrible human sacrafices in it to, or are we just ignoring that?
"Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me."Exodus 13:2
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Post by Random Guy on Sept 23, 2010 22:54:17 GMT -5
I don't think that passage meant to refer to human sacrifices, though, as firstborns are mentioned elsewhere throughout the Bible as being very much alive and there were no such ritual sacrifices ever recorded in any Bible passages, except for Isaac of course.
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Post by worlder on Sept 23, 2010 23:21:17 GMT -5
IIRC Even the culture most notable for human sacrifice, the Aztecs, basically used it as an excuse to off excess PoWs and to start a war.
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Post by Thejebusfire on Sept 23, 2010 23:23:25 GMT -5
I don't think that passage meant to refer to human sacrifices, though, as firstborns are mentioned elsewhere throughout the Bible as being very much alive and there were no such ritual sacrifices ever recorded in any Bible passages, except for Isaac of course. Yeah, that probably wasn't the best pick. |
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Post by Vypernight on Sept 24, 2010 4:34:27 GMT -5
Yeah, unfortunately, all we really get for Halloween are candy and horror movies. I mean, I live in a rough part of town, and even they won't allow human sacrifices. People are so PC nowadays.
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Post by Rime on Sept 24, 2010 4:57:17 GMT -5
All the talk about evil spirits was as much a tactic by Catholic clergy to discourage the pagans from practicing their traditional ways. Remember, vilify what you don't like, and if that doesn't work, arrest them, give them a swift and just trial and then burn them at the stake.
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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on Sept 24, 2010 7:00:06 GMT -5
Actually reminds me a bit of Taoism, specifically the leaving out meals for spirits bit.
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Post by scotsgit on Sept 24, 2010 8:25:44 GMT -5
Oh good grief: That would be Baal from the Carthiginian, as in Carthage. As in a place in North Africa. Not a place noted for its links to Celtic culture. *facepalm* Oh please stop, it hurts. The harvest, in Norther europe, was gathered in long before this: Try early autumn, because in the time of the Celts, when Samhain came about, the crops would by then have been rotting in the fields! What Catholic missionaries? Seriously, what Catholic missionaries? The early church in (what is now) Britain was seperated from Rome, moreover, the first parts of Britain to convert were the Scots (and NOT in 601 AD!), the part that became England wouldn't start converting until over 100 years later. Norman Macdougall (Scots historian) has noted that this is one of the areas where Scots vs English antipathy to each other comes from! And it wasn't mass conversion - many areas converted, many others didn't. Good grief, this is elementary history how the hell did someone get this wrong? It's a day of obligation! There are loads of them each year! It's when we do good to one another! I like them! Not to be confused with the celtic new year, which was back in March. Now I'm REALLY angry: Trick or treat is an americanism. It wasn't even known of in Europe (place you get Celts from) until about 30 years ago. In Scotland, we used to have a better tradition called 'guising' where you went out (in fancy dress) went to people's houses and performed a song, or told some jokes or performed a small sketch. In return, you would be given sweets (candy). Quite a few European countries had similar (equally pleasant) tradtions. And they're so common in europe....  Strange to relate, but sometimes people do just things because they're fun....No, the skull has been, for several millenia, a symbol of death. Obviously never been to a New Year's Eve party.... except in catholic countries where it's celebrated with an explosion of style.... Or in New Orleans (admitedly, there they need no reason to party) where it's a huge flamboyant festival.... I used to return with sweets, apples (tight bastards) and a couple bottles of Irn Bru. |
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Post by matante on Sept 24, 2010 10:29:22 GMT -5
"Oh please stop, it hurts. The harvest, in Norther europe, was gathered in long before this: Try early autumn, because in the time of the Celts, when Samhain came about, the crops would by then have been rotting in the fields!"
I'm no expert on the Celts, but I'd be surprised if they didn't figure it out too: in northern climates, food growing season can be lenghtened by covering vegetables in hay (or, today, with tarps) every night so their temperature doesn't go under 0 Celcius.
In an average Canadian year, you can harvest something as delicate as lettuce as late as mid-november. Sometimes snow will come before the dirt has grown too cold for it to work.
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Lucifer
Full Member
Everyone's Favorite Gardener of A Mystical Forbiden Garden becuase Someone left out their porn.
Posts: 135
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Post by Lucifer on Sept 25, 2010 0:31:32 GMT -5
"Oh please stop, it hurts. The harvest, in Norther europe, was gathered in long before this: Try early autumn, because in the time of the Celts, when Samhain came about, the crops would by then have been rotting in the fields!" I'm no expert on the Celts, but I'd be surprised if they didn't figure it out too: in northern climates, food growing season can be lenghtened by covering vegetables in hay (or, today, with tarps) every night so their temperature doesn't go under 0 Celcius. In an average Canadian year, you can harvest something as delicate as lettuce as late as mid-november. Sometimes snow will come before the dirt has grown too cold for it to work. I doubt they do any research at all. |
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Post by scotsgit on Sept 25, 2010 0:57:14 GMT -5
"Oh please stop, it hurts. The harvest, in Norther europe, was gathered in long before this: Try early autumn, because in the time of the Celts, when Samhain came about, the crops would by then have been rotting in the fields!" I'm no expert on the Celts, but I'd be surprised if they didn't figure it out too: in northern climates, food growing season can be lenghtened by covering vegetables in hay (or, today, with tarps) every night so their temperature doesn't go under 0 Celcius. In an average Canadian year, you can harvest something as delicate as lettuce as late as mid-november. Sometimes snow will come before the dirt has grown too cold for it to work. You want to get the harvest in a soon as possible at that point in history because it's your main source of income. Why delay it? |
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Post by Vypernight on Sept 25, 2010 3:57:48 GMT -5
Quote:Some say that Halloween brings out the evil side of human nature in certain individuals. The number of vandalism acts committed each year on Halloween certainly seems to support this. . . (Dunwich, Gerina. The Pagan Book of Halloween, p. 23)
No, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Valentine's Day, Rosh Hashanah, etc. bring out the evil side of people. Working in retail (and I'm sure others here can agree), I see it EVERY SINGLE YEAR. People are a lot nicer during Halloween, well except for that lady who called me Devil Spawn because she got a pastry in Halloween colors, which I didn't even make (and I am Not a devil spawn! He is my part-timer!)! |
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Dan
Full Member
Posts: 228
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Post by Dan on Sept 25, 2010 5:02:28 GMT -5
You want to get the harvest in a soon as possible at that point in history because it's your main source of income. Why delay it? Because the later you bring it in, the less time it has to keep before the start of the next year's harvest. |
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