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Post by sidburn on Oct 23, 2010 17:51:55 GMT -5
Have any of you believed and/or been terrorized or disgusted by the popular Christian doctrine that not only do at least 85% of the human race end up in an eternal torture chamber, but that we all DESERVE such a fate? I'm a Christian myself and I find that idea abhorrent. It contributed to a long period of cynical agnosticism that I went through (I consider myself a quasi-Universalist now). What are some of the worst, most outlandish, or most outrageous claims you've heard either confirming or justifying the idea of hell?
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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on Oct 23, 2010 18:05:09 GMT -5
My favourite is Revelation 7:4, God sends his angels down to mark 144,000 members of the tribes of Israel as the ones to be saved in the coming apocalypse - and they have to be male and virgins. In other words, screw you if you obeyed the law of Moses, if you aren't a member of the right club you're boned anyway.
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Post by sidburn on Oct 23, 2010 18:08:11 GMT -5
So unless you're a male WoW player who lives in your mom's basement and live in Israel, you're screwn
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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on Oct 23, 2010 18:22:03 GMT -5
So unless you're a male WoW player who lives in your mom's basement and live in Israel, you're screwn Yup, "Teh guild of teh mothers basement will live FOREVER, bwahahahahahaha!" |
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Post by godlesspanther on Oct 23, 2010 18:34:57 GMT -5
No matter what you are going to hell according to some religion. Muslims believe that all non-muslims are going to hell. Some christians believe that you go to hell if you don't do it their way, some believe you go to hell if you don't do confession and communion, some say you go to hell if you reject Jesus, according to the Amish you go to hell for driving a car or using a telephone, according to Fred Phelps you go to hell for not being Fred Phelps.
Makes the whole hell thing completely meaningless. I just tell them that anyone with more than two functioning brain cells and a first-grade education cannot possible take the shit seriously.
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Post by musicalbookworm on Oct 23, 2010 18:50:21 GMT -5
I love the South Park ep about hell. "The correct answer was Mormonism." It's probably the most accurate depiction.
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Post by Tiberius on Oct 23, 2010 19:41:01 GMT -5
I love the South Park ep about hell. "The correct answer was Mormonism." It's probably the most accurate depiction. Then they send Saddam Hussein to Heaven as punishment  . |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Oct 23, 2010 20:13:44 GMT -5
The most abhorrent justification is "God is righteousness and so you are a horrible evil person for not praying the magic prayer." Furthermore, I love how the denominations that say "Work-based salvation is wrong and evil" are also the ones that most require works.  And when you call them on it, they say "works are evidence of salvation!' |
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Post by The_L on Oct 23, 2010 20:42:16 GMT -5
The most abhorrent justification is "God is righteousness and so you are a horrible evil person for not praying the magic prayer." Furthermore, I love how the denominations that say "Work-based salvation is wrong and evil" are also the ones that most require works. And when you call them on it, they say "works are evidence of salvation!' Don't forget that a lot of them are also Bible-only, and the "Sinner's Prayer" that they love so much isn't in the Bible! |
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Post by Meshakhad on Oct 23, 2010 21:03:54 GMT -5
Which is one reason why I prefer Judaism: nobody goes to Gehenna forever. The most time you can spend there is 12 months. For truly evil souls, there is instead karet - the annihilation of the soul. It is permanent, but it is presumably painless.
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Post by MaybeNever on Oct 23, 2010 21:26:41 GMT -5
I've always been fond of the whole "god is infinite, thus by rejecting him the sin is infinite, thus you deserve infinite punishment" argument. Because it's somehow objectively worse to slap a king than to slap a hobo.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Oct 23, 2010 22:23:35 GMT -5
Which is one reason why I prefer Judaism: nobody goes to Gehenna forever. The most time you can spend there is 12 months. For truly evil souls, there is instead karet - the annihilation of the soul. It is permanent, but it is presumably painless. Behold, I have learned something new about Judaism. Isn't it odd that the oldest of the three Abrahamic religions is also the least bad? |
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Post by Art Vandelay on Oct 24, 2010 0:37:14 GMT -5
Which is one reason why I prefer Judaism: nobody goes to Gehenna forever. The most time you can spend there is 12 months. For truly evil souls, there is instead karet - the annihilation of the soul. It is permanent, but it is presumably painless. Behold, I have learned something new about Judaism. Isn't it odd that the oldest of the three Abrahamic religions is also the least bad? You know something's not quite right when the best of the Abrahamic religions is also one that demands a piece of your wedding tackle be cut off. |
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Post by Sigmaleph on Oct 24, 2010 1:14:20 GMT -5
I've always been fond of the whole "god is infinite, thus by rejecting him the sin is infinite, thus you deserve infinite punishment" argument. Because it's somehow objectively worse to slap a king than to slap a hobo. I wonder how this argument generalises. If I accept God, is then the acceptance infinite? What if I accept one part of god, and reject another, and both are infinite? If blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin, does that imply I can accept the Holy Spirit and reject the father and the son? Is the Holy Spirit a greater infinity than the rest of the Trinity, like say the real vs the rational numbers? Since by accepting one god I reject an infinite number of other gods, infinitely many of which are infinite, isn't rejecting God at least equal to accepting him, if not preferable? |
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Post by mechtaur on Oct 24, 2010 18:58:53 GMT -5
No matter what you are going to hell according to some religion. Muslims believe that all non-muslims are going to hell. Some christians believe that you go to hell if you don't do it their way, some believe you go to hell if you don't do confession and communion, some say you go to hell if you reject Jesus, according to the Amish you go to hell for driving a car or using a telephone, according to Fred Phelps you go to hell for not being Fred Phelps. Makes the whole hell thing completely meaningless. I just tell them that anyone with more than two functioning brain cells and a first-grade education cannot possible take the shit seriously. The muslim part is wrong. Islam teaches that non-muslims go to heaven or hell based upon how well they followed the laws of their land. unbelievers (ex-muslims) are the ones sent to hell automatically. |
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And when you call them on it, they say "works are evidence of salvation!' 
