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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on Nov 14, 2010 5:04:18 GMT -5
A Polish pop star, Doda, faces two years in jail for saying that the people who wrote the bible "drank too much wine and smoked herbal cigarettes.”Her more-in-your-face boyfriend , Adam “Nergal” Darski of the band Behemoth has also been brought before the polish courts for destroying a bible and saying nasty things about the church. But...sending someone to jail because they said the authors of the Bible "smoked herbal cigarettes", the fuck? |
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Post by Art Vandelay on Nov 14, 2010 5:36:29 GMT -5
Aaand, yes. The progressive European image is a mere facade. The bastards are just as, if not more, religiously backwards than the US.
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Post by malicious_bloke on Nov 14, 2010 6:42:26 GMT -5
Because europe is one single entity innit.
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Post by ltfred on Nov 14, 2010 6:52:54 GMT -5
Because europe is one single entity innit. It does seem a little unfair to tar the Danes and the English for the (admittedly dumbshit) actions of Poland. The governments aren't even Catholic! |
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Post by Art Vandelay on Nov 14, 2010 6:53:56 GMT -5
No, but all European states (at least to my knowledge) have a state religion that's taxpayer funded. Pretty backwards if you ask me.
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Post by scotsgit on Nov 14, 2010 7:30:52 GMT -5
Because europe is one single entity innit. It does seem a little unfair to tar the Danes and the English for the (admittedly dumbshit) actions of Poland. The governments aren't even Catholic! Or indeed the Scots, the French, the Spanish, the Portugese or the other nations that make up the EU! |
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Post by scotsgit on Nov 14, 2010 7:35:21 GMT -5
No, but all European states (at least to my knowledge) have a state religion that's taxpayer funded. Pretty backwards if you ask me. The UK doesn't. The Church of Scotland and the Roman Catholic Church are self-financing, the Church of England is in the same boat - indeed, in recent years the CofE has raised a lot of hackles by suggesting that it receive tax towards paying its members and upkeep of their buildings, despite there being several wars and rebellions that managed to break Church from State in this country. And in the UK, church attendance is not mandatory for anyone to be the leader of the nation, something your country doesn't seem able to grasp. |
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Post by Art Vandelay on Nov 14, 2010 7:56:24 GMT -5
And in the UK, church attendance is not mandatory for anyone to be the leader of the nation, something your country doesn't seem able to grasp. Excuse me? I'm Australian, a country that currently features an atheist Prime Minister, no less. ;D In any case, the only point I was making is that the stereotype that Europeans are more religiously progressive than the Americans is bollocks. Besides, according to wikipedia the Church of England is represented in the UK parliament and is even able to submit drafts of laws to parliament. So while my claim that they're taxpayer-funded may be a little out of date, neverthenless my point still stands that pretty much all of Europe is far from secular right now. |
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Post by malicious_bloke on Nov 14, 2010 8:29:24 GMT -5
]In any case, the only point I was making is that the stereotype that Europeans are more religiously progressive than the Americans is bollocks. Actually you're just reinforcing your mistake that the term "european" ecompasses a single culture or set of social attitudes. Come out with such hilarious blasphemies as quoted in the OP anywhere in western europe and no one would really give a shit, much less have you arrested for it. There are no CofE representatives in the commons, so the idea of them being able to draft laws is pretty laughable. There are lords spiritual (bishops with honourary peerages basically) who sit in the house of lords, but by convention they usually dont vote on bills that have passed from the lower house. Their role is more ceremonial than anything. |
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Post by Art Vandelay on Nov 14, 2010 8:41:15 GMT -5
Actually you're just reinforcing your mistake that the term "european" ecompasses a single culture or set of social attitudes. Come out with such hilarious blasphemies as quoted in the OP anywhere in western europe and no one would really give a shit, much less have you arrested for it. You misunderstand me, I wasn't saying getting arrested for badmouthing Jesus is a typical occurrence in Europe, just the general stereotype that Europeans are less religiously backwards then Yanks is bullsheizer, and that this particular incident provides a little tidbit of proof of that. There are no CofE representatives in the commons, so the idea of them being able to draft laws is pretty laughable. There are lords spiritual (bishops with honourary peerages basically) who sit in the house of lords, but by convention they usually dont vote on bills that have passed from the lower house. Their role is more ceremonial than anything. Ceremonial and generally impotent their role in parliament may be, but neverthenless, it's still less then secular, no? |
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Post by szaleniec on Nov 14, 2010 8:49:35 GMT -5
That the Polish establishment are corrupt and out-of-touch is hardly news. This time, though, they're just begging to have Article 9 come down on them like the hand of fate. IANAL but if I was I'd take that case. Re the Church of England: were they taxpayer funded, we wouldn't have the stereotype of Anglican churches with those giant thermometers to track donations. |
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Post by Vene on Nov 14, 2010 10:08:05 GMT -5
From what I can see, a lot of those state sponsored churches are "Christian," not Christian.
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Post by Shano on Nov 14, 2010 10:51:41 GMT -5
I am rather confused, Art Vandeley. Which "Europe" are you talking about? The one that has more than 30 countries, includes a muslim one (Turkey, where the military makes a coup when religion starts making gains on government), has a large diversity of religious sects operating, with histories in the last 100 years ranging from totalitarian and authoritarian self-professed atheist regimes to nazism? Avoid bundling thing together. Yes there are some very religiously stupid places in Europe, the same way it has some of the most "progressive" ones. Oh and by the way, care to define what you mean by religiously progressive? Aside from not paying churches from tax money (and you probably should support your afaik statement that all of them do with some citations) and having religous organizations originate laws concerning religion (what is the non-progressive part of that?; should all laws regarding religion only have secular origin?)
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Post by futthewukk on Nov 14, 2010 11:15:29 GMT -5
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Post by Art Vandelay on Nov 14, 2010 11:35:09 GMT -5
I am rather confused, Art Vandeley. Which "Europe" are you talking about? The one that has more than 30 countries, includes a muslim one (Turkey, where the military makes a coup when religion starts making gains on government), has a large diversity of religious sects operating, with histories in the last 100 years ranging from totalitarian and authoritarian self-professed atheist regimes to nazism? Avoid bundling thing together. Yes there are some very religiously stupid places in Europe, the same way it has some of the most "progressive" ones. Oh and by the way, care to define what you mean by religiously progressive? Aside from not paying churches from tax money (and you probably should support your afaik statement that all of them do with some citations) and having religous organizations originate laws concerning religion (what is the non-progressive part of that?; should all laws regarding religion only have secular origin?) Well, I wouldn't say Turkey is European any more than I'd say Britain is Iberian or Russia is Asian. I'd have said Bosnia and Hertzegovina is a better example of a country that has more than half a city in Europe and is majority Muslim (granted, it's a minority majority but it still works neverthenless). Anyhoo, as for my original statement, I was simply saying that the stereotype of Americans being more religiously nutty then Europeans is asinine. I really don't see why condemning a stereotype is this controversial, personally. |
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