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Post by Her3tiK on Apr 24, 2011 19:43:49 GMT -5
Hey all,
Lately, I've found myself wondering just how much religion needs to be fought. For the past couple years, I've had this mentality of religion needs to be wiped out if humanity is to survive*. More recently, however, I've found myself thinking about how this mentality is quite likely rather foolish, if not a bit arrogant and delusional. That is not to say that I don't still have a certain amount of respect and admiration for people like PZ Myers and Bill Maher. I think a few loud voices who don't tend to back down can be a good thing for (relatively) small movements, though I've found myself thinking that there are some fights that are truly not worth fighting, and some symbols not worth spreading. Of these, cases such as the recent spate of atheist billboards ("You KNOW it's a myth") are both a bit overboard and poorly phrased, and, during holidays at least, just a little tasteless.
What I want to know is, what the general consensus on this board is on taking a stand against religion. It'd be great if you explained the answer you chose.
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Post by Runa on Apr 24, 2011 19:51:57 GMT -5
Look, I'm a Norse pagan, and I think religion should stay the fuck out of politics and the government.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Apr 24, 2011 20:14:00 GMT -5
I believe people have the right to choose to be religious.
However, religion should only focus on matters of religion, and politics should only focus on matters of politics, and personal business should be kept personal.
Right now, religion is overinflated and affecting everyone on both a government level and a personal level. It needs to be brought down several notches. But to eradicate it completely... well, it just smacks of saying "I want to eradicate your choices".
That being said, I also support the right for people to believe in unicorns, fairies, and dragons. Just so long as their choices don't hinder mine.
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Post by happycheeze on Apr 24, 2011 20:24:51 GMT -5
Here in the US, people either don't fucking know or care about the establishment clause. Got to fight that shit.
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Post by Sigmaleph on Apr 24, 2011 21:30:16 GMT -5
I'd rather the world was such that anyone could believe in any kind of bullshit, but nobody did.
Which is to say. Would I prefer a world with no religion? Yes. Would I want to get there by persecuting the religious? Fuck no, that would completely defeat the point.
I'm not entirely sure what to answer on the poll. What does "fighting religion" mean? Does arguing against religion count as fighting?
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Post by Her3tiK on Apr 24, 2011 21:36:55 GMT -5
I'm not entirely sure what to answer on the poll. What does "fighting religion" mean? Does arguing against religion count as fighting? I would consider arguing against religion to be fighting, yes. Violent opposition counts, sure, but I sincerely doubt that such action is likely, if only because most of the "militant" heathens/liberal religious folk realize how counter-productive and pointless that would be. |
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Post by wmdkitty on Apr 25, 2011 0:54:33 GMT -5
No problem with religion per se, I just ask that religion be kept the fuck out of politics, because that is just a recipe for disaster.
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Post by stormwarden on Apr 25, 2011 2:04:29 GMT -5
Keep your religion off my government. It is not a peanut butter cup, and is NOT delicious.
Also, to quote a song:
"Keep your Jesus off my penis/
Keep your bible off my balls/
keep your prayers out of my ears/
and your crosses off my walls/
You can keep the virgin mother/
And your resurrection too/
Keep your Jesus off my penis/
And I will keep my penis off of you"
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Post by Yaezakura on Apr 25, 2011 2:04:49 GMT -5
Honestly, I do believe religion needs to be wiped out. Religion has done more to hinder humanity than anything else we could possibly conceive. We kill each other over who has the better imaginary friends. We kill each other over believing in slightly different versions of the same imaginary friends. We hate our fellow man over what those imaginary friends told to bronze age goat herders.
Religion is nothing more than socially acceptable insanity. And that is a fact that sorely needs to change.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Apr 25, 2011 2:22:41 GMT -5
I'd rather the world was such that anyone could believe in any kind of bullshit, but nobody did. Which is to say. Would I prefer a world with no religion? Yes. Would I want to get there by persecuting the religious? Fuck no, that would completely defeat the point. This. Seriously, you summed up my thoughts exactly. |
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Post by lighthorseman on Apr 25, 2011 2:37:39 GMT -5
Church and state should never mix... but thats a pretty specific aspect of religion that needs to be "combated". Don't know if it necessarily qualifies as "often".
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Post by Haseen on Apr 25, 2011 3:05:42 GMT -5
I don't think religion is inherently bad. It becomes bad when it's abused by an organization to gain power and control people. This is why church and state must be separate. It's also bad when a mass delusion harms people or hinders scientific progress. Other than that, unproven beliefs aren't necessarily bad because they can bring comfort, foster creativity, and become the source of ideas that can be tested and may actually advance scientific progress. That said, those kinds of beliefs need to give way if they are proven false.
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Post by dakotabob on Apr 25, 2011 4:56:05 GMT -5
Honestly, I do believe religion needs to be wiped out. Religion has done more to hinder humanity than anything else we could possibly conceive. We kill each other over who has the better imaginary friends. We kill each other over believing in slightly different versions of the same imaginary friends. We hate our fellow man over what those imaginary friends told to bronze age goat herders. Religion is nothing more than socially acceptable insanity. And that is a fact that sorely needs to change. +1 As much as I am opposed to forcing people into one mode of thinking, I would shed no tears if religion was utterly annihilated. |
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Post by The_L on Apr 25, 2011 6:03:38 GMT -5
The thing is, religion brings out both the best AND the worst in people. Christianity has created awesome stuff, like the Salvation Army (granted, they'd be better if they helped EVERYONE who needed it), and horrific crimes against humanity like the Inquisition. For many Neopagans, our belief in Nature as sacred is the source of our environmentalism.
The problem is extremism and exclusivist/dominionist beliefs. Worship whatever gods you want; I don't care. But the second you try to push your god on me, or try to stop me from worshiping my Lady, you have crossed the line.
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Post by Napoleon the Clown on Apr 25, 2011 7:05:13 GMT -5
So long as religion isn't being pernicious, I can't really consider it to be outright bad. If a law has rational, logical reasons to exist, what's the big deal if the person who started the push for it basing the desire on religious beliefs? Shit like "no teaching about teh gays"? No benefit. "I believe in respecting Mother Gaia (or whatever the exact term may be)"? There's benefit to not fucking the planet up, so I can't really say it bugs me if the motivation is spiritual or religious in nature.
Combat irrationality and forcing one's unsupported, unprovable beliefs on others. To believe something that flies in the face of all evidence and reason is silly, possibly delusional, unless it actually causes harm, what's the point in getting worked up over it? Make education available, be there to answer questions in a calm, non-asshole manner. Being a total prick isn't going to convince someone, nor is sarcasm. Though both can feel very, very good once someone has proven themselves to be beyond all reason and evidence.
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