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Post by goonerboy on May 4, 2011 13:15:41 GMT -5
So, as you may or may not know, there's a referendum in the UK tomorrow asking whether the British people want to change the voting system for electing MPs from First Past the Post (FPTP) to the Alternative Vote (AV) system. Sadly, I'm not 18 til next year, and I'd absolutely love to be able to vote in this as I'm a staunch supporter of changing from the ridiculously unfair system of FPTP. Sadly it seems that, as the majority of the general public are fuckin' stupid, AV will be crushed tomorrow. Will any of my fellow Britons be voting tomorrow, and which way? For anyone who doesn't know, here's what's happening tomorrow: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12892836
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Post by zombietom on May 4, 2011 14:11:44 GMT -5
I will be voting YES tomorrow. Apart from believing AV is a fairer system than first past the post, it's a great opportunity to send a well deserved "fuck you" to the Tories and the BNP. Of course, so long as one party gets at least 50% of votes, it will work the same way as FPTP.
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Post by goonerboy on May 4, 2011 14:17:32 GMT -5
Good on ya . Well yes, but that doesn't happen. 2/3 of MPs at the moment are elected after the majority of the electorate voting against them.
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Post by ironbite on May 4, 2011 14:27:18 GMT -5
So, I'm an American. Most of the board is American. Please to be explaining this FTLP thing.
Ironbite-or we liberate you and install American Style Democracy!
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Post by goonerboy on May 4, 2011 14:31:34 GMT -5
All is explained in the link
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Post by CtraK on May 4, 2011 14:36:03 GMT -5
So, I'm an American. Most of the board is American. Please to be explaining this FTLP thing. Ironbite-or we liberate you and install American Style Democracy! Really? You don't know your own system? The particularly stupid thing about people voting "no" is that you don't have to select second preferences down - and hence, if that's the choice you make, the only change that happens is that you put down a "1" instead of an "X". Of course, the other major thing is that a large number of those voting "no" will probably have been taken in by outright lies. Huhne is right (shock horror) - outright lies and repeated false statements in a political campaign should be sueable, if not prosecutable. If they were, though, I suspect the one legitimately elected MP's first act would be to tell BBC Parliament and an empty House of Commons that he's building a new American-style super-prison for the rest of them. The final thing is that it's still a majoritarian system, so all that happens is that safe seats are slashed by half.
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Post by discoberry on May 4, 2011 15:15:11 GMT -5
So, I'm an American. Most of the board is American. Please to be explaining this FTLP thing. Ironbite-or we liberate you and install American Style Democracy! Just in case you're mildly retarded or hate to read:
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on May 4, 2011 15:34:45 GMT -5
So, I'm an American. Most of the board is American. Please to be explaining this FTLP thing. Ironbite-or we liberate you and install American Style Democracy! FPTP = First Past the Post. The candidate with the most votes wins, regardless of whether or not he or she has the majority of votes. America also uses FPTP. You just don't see the same effects because you're de facto Two Party, whereas a lot of other countries have 3 or more registered parties that get a significant portion of the vote.
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Post by Shano on May 4, 2011 15:55:46 GMT -5
So, I'm an American. Most of the board is American. Please to be explaining this FTLP thing. Ironbite-or we liberate you and install American Style Democracy! FPTP = First Past the Post. The candidate with the most votes wins, regardless of whether or not he or she has the majority of votes. America also uses FPTP. You just don't see the same effects because you're de facto Two Party, whereas a lot of other countries have 3 or more registered parties that get a significant portion of the vote. They do see the effects! The US two party system is the ultimate degeneration of the majoritarian (FPTP) voting system. P.S. And just look at what happened in Canada - with 40% of the votes the Tories got 54% of the seats. But traditionalism is so hard to break from... And the whole illusion that if you vote for individual persons, they somehow are more responsible to the electorate. It certainly is the case that proportional systems can lead to fragmentation, but I fail to see how that is less effective than the bickering of the US Congress or the minority governments of the UK or Canada.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on May 4, 2011 15:56:43 GMT -5
True. I was mostly referring to the short-term effects, though.
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Post by sylvana on May 5, 2011 2:01:07 GMT -5
I see. I didn't originally know what the AV system is, but I do see that it does have merit. That little Video was quite good. In South Africa AV voting would dramatically change our political landscape. I would be in support of it, but I know that the powers that be in my country would never allow it to erode their power-base.
Good luck in the UK though.
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Cymraes
Junior Member
Dim marciau ffordd!
Posts: 63
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Post by Cymraes on May 5, 2011 2:25:11 GMT -5
I'll be voting YES. I've been waiting for a chance to change our electoral system ever since studying "British Government and World Affairs" for A-level (an exam at age 18). My daughter is voting for the first time this year and we have had so many chats about why it is important to take part in elections. I think she might vote YES as well.
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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on May 5, 2011 3:32:22 GMT -5
Preference voting can result in some really interesting outcomes, such as the the current one in Australian Federal politics where the left-leaning Green party and a handful of independents control the balance of power. The major parties hate it, but then the major parties sometimes cooperate on issues just to crush the minor parties.
At the end of the day you still have two major parties, a centerist veering to the right Labour party and a conservative party getting the lions share of the vote, but crucially minor parties can make a huge difference when they control the balance of power in one or both of the federal legislative bodies, parliament and the senate for anyone who is interested.
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Post by Sandafluffoid on May 5, 2011 3:38:23 GMT -5
I just returned from voting YES. I don't want AV, per se, I want an even fairer system, but if it's defeated today then we will never see another chance to change the system in our lifetimes.
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Post by HarleyThomas1002 on May 5, 2011 3:54:54 GMT -5
Bah, voting is an obsolete system of choosing a leader.
Instead any and all leaders who choose to run for election should have to duel in a gladiator arena.
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