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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on May 23, 2011 18:46:10 GMT -5
Expelled's Ben Stein has chimed in on the arrest of former IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn. On Rape Suspects: Rich, well connected and important may be a factor which brings us to... Well I'm a socialist, but I don't know about the US media and it's supposed hatred of rich and influential people. It would strike me as a little odd if the American news media were now hoisting red banners and calling the proletariat to victory, speaking of such... On Hotel maids: Some of my best friends are hotel maids, the thieving conniving bitches! How could such a sainted innocent as the head of the IMF contemplate doing anything criminal? Because fat, middle aged men never sexually assault anyone. Who the hell is Josef Fritzl? I think he said that if a rape victim reports a rape there is no way she could have actually been raped as a real rape victim would be too scared to report the rape. Didn't they use this exact same method to determine someones status as a witch, with dunking? In any case, what of the rights of fat-middle aged men? The man may be a rape suspect, but he's a distinguished one. You don't put distinguished rape suspects in the same place as poor rape suspects, it's uncivilized. You're treating the man like he could be a criminal! It's been a while since Stein brought us his particular brand of stupid, well-it's still there! |
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Mr. Nnamdi
New Member
What happens if a car going the speed of light turns on its headlights? Pregnancy.
Posts: 21
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Post by Mr. Nnamdi on May 23, 2011 19:05:33 GMT -5
Does this man realize what he's saying?
"...stealing medications from me."
Aha, I think we have our answer.
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Post by largeham on May 23, 2011 19:16:03 GMT -5
I have no love for DSK (being the head of the IMF), but this entire thing stinks for me. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a set up (not on the maid's part).
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Post by Kit Walker on May 23, 2011 21:11:03 GMT -5
Well, well, well sir I think that Ben Stein brings up an interesting point. Presuming that the rape victim is being truthful right off the bat and automatically condemning the alleged perpetrator is how we end up with stuff like the Duke Lacrosse case, or the Tawana Brawley case.
Well, ok, Ben would be bringing up a good point if this was the first and only such allegation against Strauss-Kahn. It's not, a reporter brought allegations of sexual assault back in 2007. I still hesitate to flatly condemn him until more of the evidence is made public (like during the trial) because at the moment all we have is he said, she said and a prosecutor's claims that the medical evidence support her. Still, Ben Stein is a classicist asshole and things do not look good for Strauss-Kahn.
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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on May 23, 2011 21:19:30 GMT -5
I'm taking everything he said in the context of this.
I believe in the presumption of innocence, Bennies little catch - 22 for victims makes me think he's going a bit beyond the standard presumption of innocence and into a presumption of guilt (as in guiltily falsely accusing) on the part of the alleged victim.
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Post by Aqualung on May 23, 2011 21:44:12 GMT -5
I don't hate rich people. Just the ones who didn't do anything to earn their money and act entitled to everything given to them on a silver platter and weasel their way out of paying their taxes.
And Ben Stein is probably the kind of asshole who leaves his hotel rooms a mess just because someone else has to clean it up after him. I've lost any respect I may have had for him at one time since Expelled.
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Post by Kit Walker on May 23, 2011 21:46:06 GMT -5
I believe in the presumption of innocence, Bennies little catch - 22 for victims makes me think he's going a bit beyond the standard presumption of innocence and into a presumption of guilt (as in guiltily falsely accusing) on the part of the alleged victim. Oh, Stein is being a tremendous asshole and left "rightfully cautious" behind in favor of "come on, she's a poor person and he's middle aged white dude, who are you going to believe?" Still, the point he brings up (that we should be sure her story is credible before we condemn Strauss-Kahn) is an interesting one. |
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Post by ltfred on May 23, 2011 22:08:23 GMT -5
Why wasn't Joseph Fritzl convicted for so long? Clearly he's innocent.
Almost no rape claims are deliberately false. It's a ridiculously low number. Assuming that adult rape claims are false (while not doing the same for the far more likely false child rapes) is sexist, bigoted and extremely shameful. It is enabling rape- a serious crime. That's what this fool is doing.
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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on May 23, 2011 22:31:15 GMT -5
Oh, Stein is being a tremendous asshole and left "rightfully cautious" behind in favor of "come on, she's a poor person and he's middle aged white dude, who are you going to believe?" Still, the point he brings up (that we should be sure her story is credible before we condemn Strauss-Kahn) is an interesting one. I don't think for a second that in this case the alleged perpetrator has been declared guilty right off the bat. I believe he was remanded in custody because he was deemed a flight risk. I'm a little fuzzy on the US legal system but I thought it was commonplace in most jurisdictions to remand people in custody when they are suspected of committing culpable offenses. When I say culpable offenses I'm talking about serious crimes like murder, manslaughter, rape, grievous bodily harm etc. If we don't condemn people off the bat then we should be just as prudent about declaring their probable innocence off the bat. Particularly if the basis of their presumed innocence rests on presumptions as shaky as believing that a respectable middle aged man could not have done anything as awful as rape and/or that low paid female workers in the service industry are innately suspect. |
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Post by dasfuchs on May 24, 2011 1:56:51 GMT -5
"They were in a hotel with people passing by the room constantly, if it's anything like the many hotels I am in. "
See Benny, there's this thing called a "door". These tend to open and shut very easily, and oddly enough, block the view and muffled sounds from passers by, if it's anything like the hotels I've been in.
I feel bad for maids, they get shafted often enough. Hence why I try to keep my place clean and help out with the room when they show and I'm home.
I'd sooner trust them to be honest and helping than you you conceited prick
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Post by Meshakhad on May 24, 2011 18:09:12 GMT -5
I'm going to let the jury decide. On the one hand, the evidence seems pretty solid. On the other hand, there is a potential motive for setting him up (namely, getting him out of the running for the French presidency).
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xotan
Full Member
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Post by xotan on May 25, 2011 5:37:51 GMT -5
I have to say that I don't really understand the American system, so I am somewhat puzzled. I am used to a system where the rule is 'innocent until proven guilty in a court of law'. And until that is done, the the accused although in custody in the case of serious crime, is accorded privacy and respect due to any citizen. If found guilty in a court, then it is open season on the individual.
However, it seems to me that there are two schools of thought. One has already made a judgement that DKS is guilty - although on the most spurious basis. The other seems to be suggesting that it is a set-up. Me, I prefer to suspend all opinion until the court has handed down its decision.
It is alleged that DKS has a dubious reputation in this matter, but even so, that might be an Achilles heel that has been used to get him - or maybe not. If the allegations of former sexual aggression are true, then it doesn't look good for him.
Hotel maids come in many differend kinds. There are those whom it is a pleasure to reward for their kindness and helpfulness. There are others that are quite the opposite I have no way of knowing which category this lady falls into. But it does seem odd that she was almost kept in protective custody - at least that is what was reported in the papers I read. I was left wondering what exactly was going on. I would be used to the alleged perpetrator and victim of an alleged sex crime remaining completely anonymous to protect them pending a judicial outcome. the anonymity of an proven victim always remains private.
A final thought, if a woman, decides to call 'rape', even against an innocent, then it is very difficult to defend oneself against it. Consequently such cases require the most careful handling for justice to prevail (No I am not trying to protect sex criminals. I am trying to protect justice!). As it is, there has been a whipped up 'fair' trial by media and DKS can be taken out a publically hanged. I am left with an impression that this is the technique of the KKK, lynching - in reverse.
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Post by katz on May 25, 2011 11:23:44 GMT -5
Here's the thing about Ben Stein; even when bringing up a valid point (innocent until proven guilty), he's just such a pompous dick about it that it turns my stomach.
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