Post by id82 on Aug 12, 2011 12:57:18 GMT -5
I've been reading through the bible lately so I can familiarize myself with it and I came across this passage in Numbers 5:11-31 that some of you might be familiar with.
What the hell is all of this about the womb swelling and thigh falling away? Now Christian apologists will say that this was a "test" for adultery, and since it does not mention baby in it that it can't mean an abortion. To see if the wife has been unfaithful to her jealous husband, but what the hell is all of this womb swelling stuff?
Here's what one Christian apologist said:
Wait a second? So basically the test was to rob a woman who had commiting adultery of having children, if she didn't commit adultery then her womb would be fine? And they defend this act?
And what the hell is this bullshit that this test was not done on a pregnant woman?
If the woman committed adultery, she might be pregnant. If the husband forced the woman to take this test and it would rob the woman with the ability to conceive then wouldn't it abort the fetus inside of her? That's what I understood from the womb swelling and thigh rotting. Obviously they wouldn't test to see if the woman was pregnant first because that would mean she cheated on her husband anyway.
Not to mention that this test which sounds pretty hazardous to the woman would probably destroy her womb no matter if she cheated or not. It's like when they threw women accused of with craft into lakes with rocks tied to them and if they floated they were innocent and if they drowned they were guilty, the woman was screwed no matter if she was a witch or not, because no divine hand of God is going to come and make them float, just like no intervention from God is going to save the woman's womb from whatever bitter water she had to drink for this test.
This sounds like a forced abortion on the woman to me like a test to see if she is pregnant with another man's child, otherwise why would they do this? Christians would say, of course this isn't an abortion what are you talking about? They're just destroying her womb because she's a cheating woman.
Or maybe it's not an abortion because the man and the priest are forcing the woman to do it and the feminist woman isn't making the choice to do it herself?
What do you guys think?
11 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 12 “Speak to the people of Israel, If any man's wife goes astray and breaks faith with him, 13 if a man lies with her sexually, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her, since she was not taken in the act, 14 and if the spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself, or if the spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself, 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest and bring the offering required of her, a tenth of an ephah [1] of barley flour. He shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance.
16 “And the priest shall bring her near and set her before the Lord. 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord and unbind the hair of the woman's head and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And in his hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, ‘If no man has lain with you, and if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while you were under your husband's authority, be free from this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray, though you are under your husband's authority, and if you have defiled yourself, and some man other than your husband has lain with you, 21 then’ (let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse, and say to the woman) ‘the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your body swell. 22 May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’
23 “Then the priest shall write these curses in a book and wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain. 25 And the priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman's hand and shall wave the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 And the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, and burn it on the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 And when he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has broken faith with her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall swell, and her thigh shall fall away, and the woman shall become a curse among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be free and shall conceive children.
29 “This is the law in cases of jealousy, when a wife, though under her husband's authority, goes astray and defiles herself, 30 or when the spirit of jealousy comes over a man and he is jealous of his wife. Then he shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall carry out for her all this law. 31 The man shall be free from iniquity, but the woman shall bear her iniquity.”
16 “And the priest shall bring her near and set her before the Lord. 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord and unbind the hair of the woman's head and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And in his hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, ‘If no man has lain with you, and if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while you were under your husband's authority, be free from this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray, though you are under your husband's authority, and if you have defiled yourself, and some man other than your husband has lain with you, 21 then’ (let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse, and say to the woman) ‘the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your body swell. 22 May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’
23 “Then the priest shall write these curses in a book and wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain. 25 And the priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman's hand and shall wave the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 And the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, and burn it on the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 And when he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has broken faith with her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall swell, and her thigh shall fall away, and the woman shall become a curse among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be free and shall conceive children.
29 “This is the law in cases of jealousy, when a wife, though under her husband's authority, goes astray and defiles herself, 30 or when the spirit of jealousy comes over a man and he is jealous of his wife. Then he shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall carry out for her all this law. 31 The man shall be free from iniquity, but the woman shall bear her iniquity.”
What the hell is all of this about the womb swelling and thigh falling away? Now Christian apologists will say that this was a "test" for adultery, and since it does not mention baby in it that it can't mean an abortion. To see if the wife has been unfaithful to her jealous husband, but what the hell is all of this womb swelling stuff?
Here's what one Christian apologist said:
No. The verses you mentioned are not talking about abortion.
They are talking about adultery and what would be done to a woman if her husband was jealous and thought she had cheated on him.
The husband and wife would go before the priest. He would have water and dust from the tabernacle floor mixed together. If she was innocent and had not done a crime...and the husband was just jealous. ... Nothing would happen to her..she would be proved innocent....and the potion would not harm her reproductive system.
If she was guilty of this crime ...her belly would swell...her leg would rot and she would not be able to bear children.
This proceedure was not done on a pregnant woman.
The inability to bear children was a devastating situation to a woman. Unfortunately, women today don't look upon children in the same manner, as a blessing from the LORD. Unfortunately, a lot of women view their children as curses.
These verses shows that God does indeed care about our sexual relations. We are to stay faithful to our spouse. God definitely frowns on adulterous relationships along with many other sexually wrong relationships.
They are talking about adultery and what would be done to a woman if her husband was jealous and thought she had cheated on him.
The husband and wife would go before the priest. He would have water and dust from the tabernacle floor mixed together. If she was innocent and had not done a crime...and the husband was just jealous. ... Nothing would happen to her..she would be proved innocent....and the potion would not harm her reproductive system.
If she was guilty of this crime ...her belly would swell...her leg would rot and she would not be able to bear children.
This proceedure was not done on a pregnant woman.
The inability to bear children was a devastating situation to a woman. Unfortunately, women today don't look upon children in the same manner, as a blessing from the LORD. Unfortunately, a lot of women view their children as curses.
These verses shows that God does indeed care about our sexual relations. We are to stay faithful to our spouse. God definitely frowns on adulterous relationships along with many other sexually wrong relationships.
Wait a second? So basically the test was to rob a woman who had commiting adultery of having children, if she didn't commit adultery then her womb would be fine? And they defend this act?
And what the hell is this bullshit that this test was not done on a pregnant woman?
If the woman committed adultery, she might be pregnant. If the husband forced the woman to take this test and it would rob the woman with the ability to conceive then wouldn't it abort the fetus inside of her? That's what I understood from the womb swelling and thigh rotting. Obviously they wouldn't test to see if the woman was pregnant first because that would mean she cheated on her husband anyway.
Not to mention that this test which sounds pretty hazardous to the woman would probably destroy her womb no matter if she cheated or not. It's like when they threw women accused of with craft into lakes with rocks tied to them and if they floated they were innocent and if they drowned they were guilty, the woman was screwed no matter if she was a witch or not, because no divine hand of God is going to come and make them float, just like no intervention from God is going to save the woman's womb from whatever bitter water she had to drink for this test.
This sounds like a forced abortion on the woman to me like a test to see if she is pregnant with another man's child, otherwise why would they do this? Christians would say, of course this isn't an abortion what are you talking about? They're just destroying her womb because she's a cheating woman.
Or maybe it's not an abortion because the man and the priest are forcing the woman to do it and the feminist woman isn't making the choice to do it herself?
What do you guys think?
