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Post by dietcokewithlemon on Oct 24, 2011 6:17:42 GMT -5
Sorry for the shocking headline but I wanted to get your attention. Don't you just hate our modern world? Perhaps "Paris Hilton Naked" would have been better, anyway...
Herman Cain has just used one of the oldest and most shocking pro-life arguments there is to avoid the issue of rape victims being forced to raise their attacker's child. For decades now the pro life brigade has been using the argument that rape does not cause pregnancy in order to avoid answering the difficult question,
"Should rape victims be allowed to terminate a pregnancy?"
They make the claim that rape causes physical shock to the victim which blocks conception thus making it impossible for them to get pregnant therefore invalidating sexual assault as a valid reason for abortion. SCIENTIFICALLY THIS IS TOTAL BULLSHIT. It is also something that is taught in religious schools and churches.
As an argument it has 2 fantastic ( for them ) lines of attack.
1) They believe it. Its nonsence but it fits their world view so they continue pedalling it. Not much you can do about it other than argue back.
2) More importantly it catches the listener off guard. Incredible claims often sound believable. The whole "Big Lie" idea.
"Rape does not cause conception" is not a wild theory that a handful of pro lifers come up with on their own. They don't just make it up on the spot to win the argument. IT IS TAUGHT AS FACT in many schools and religious organisations. They have leaflets and books which state it in black and white. They are taught to use this argument when debating with non believers. This has been going on for decades. Thought it was worth letting you know.
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 24, 2011 6:19:26 GMT -5
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Post by dietcokewithlemon on Oct 24, 2011 6:26:12 GMT -5
Yes I posted on the other topic first. I decided to start a new topic on the indoctrination of children rather than specifically on Hermain Cain blatantly sucking up to the crazy brigade in order to get a few more votes.
I feel that everyone of this board should be forewarned about a tactic pro lifers use to indoctrinate children. I apologise if you feel I should have not started a new topic or if I should have put this in the religion section or if you are already aware of it.
I first became aware of this in the late 80s when I was a student and I discovered that most people of my age where being taught this shite AT SCHOOL. They showed me leaflets and booklets. I know for a fact that this practice is still going on.
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 24, 2011 6:34:24 GMT -5
... students are being taught that rape doesn't cause pregnancy in schools?
Are you for real? If accurate, that is utterly outrageous... but you know what they say about extraordinary claims, so have you got a link to anything supporting that?
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Post by brendanrizzo on Oct 24, 2011 10:29:14 GMT -5
I've never actually heard this, even though I hang out around a lot of pro-lifers. So, like LHM, I am also asking for a source.
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Post by anon87311 on Oct 24, 2011 10:32:17 GMT -5
me three. source or I call BS. there's no way in hell people actually teach this.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Oct 24, 2011 11:32:20 GMT -5
Fourth'd. Hardline pro-lifers make a lot of nutty claims, so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the more vicious ones are attempting to use this argument, but the idea that it's being taught in numerous schools across the US -- even religious ones -- is a little hard to swallow.
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Post by priestling on Oct 24, 2011 12:14:33 GMT -5
Fifth'ing, please.
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 24, 2011 12:20:21 GMT -5
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Post by Aqualung on Oct 24, 2011 12:25:11 GMT -5
Maybe s/he's confused with the myth that you can't get pregnant the first time you have sex. If you think of it that way, the logic kind of makes sense if your first sex is rape. Still doesn't make it true, just that it's not a big leap between the two. Don't mind me. *wanders off*
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Post by booley on Oct 24, 2011 12:56:13 GMT -5
Maybe s/he's confused with the myth that you can't get pregnant the first time you have sex. If you think of it that way, the logic kind of makes sense if your first sex is rape. Still doesn't make it true, just that it's not a big leap between the two. Don't mind me. *wanders off* a woman doesn't even have to be penetrated to get pregnant. Sperm swim. It's kind of their thing. And they really don't care if they egg owner is willing or not. |
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Post by SimSim on Oct 24, 2011 14:57:00 GMT -5
Sorry for the shocking headline but I wanted to get your attention. Don't you just hate our modern world? Perhaps "Paris Hilton Naked" would have been better, anyway... Herman Cain has just used one of the oldest and most shocking pro-life arguments there is to avoid the issue of rape victims being forced to raise their attacker's child. For decades now the pro life brigade has been using the argument that rape does not cause pregnancy in order to avoid answering the difficult question, "Should rape victims be allowed to terminate a pregnancy?" They make the claim that rape causes physical shock to the victim which blocks conception thus making it impossible for them to get pregnant therefore invalidating sexual assault as a valid reason for abortion. SCIENTIFICALLY THIS IS TOTAL BULLSHIT. It is also something that is taught in religious schools and churches. As an argument it has 2 fantastic ( for them ) lines of attack. 1) They believe it. Its nonsence but it fits their world view so they continue pedalling it. Not much you can do about it other than argue back. 2) More importantly it catches the listener off guard. Incredible claims often sound believable. The whole "Big Lie" idea. "Rape does not cause conception" is not a wild theory that a handful of pro lifers come up with on their own. They don't just make it up on the spot to win the argument. IT IS TAUGHT AS FACT in many schools and religious organisations. They have leaflets and books which state it in black and white. They are taught to use this argument when debating with non believers. This has been going on for decades. Thought it was worth letting you know. I watched the interview, that's not what Cain said. Cain's response was that when you look at all the pregnancies in the US, pregnancies caused by rape only account for a very small amount. As such he didn't feel that abortions be allowed for that. He wasn't claiming that rape doesn't cause pregnancy. While I completely disagree with what he said, it's important to give his actual argument. Edited to fix tags. |
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Post by The_L on Oct 25, 2011 20:20:17 GMT -5
DCWL, you seem to think that religious people lying about sex in schools is an unusual thing. Here are actual things that Catholic schools and CCD classes teach (and yes, I was taught every one of these things):
1. The Pill completely destroys a woman's sex drive for the entire time she's taking it.
2. Any form of sexual stimulation that does not end with a man ejaculating directly into his wife's vagina is freakish, disgusting, and an affront to God.
3. Abortion increases the probability of getting breast cancer.
4. The Pill prevents implantation of the blastocyst, and is thus an abortifacient.
5. Condoms prevent feelings of intimacy and/or commitment from resulting from sex.
6. Condoms and other contraceptives "don't always work" (this is pretty much the exact wording used, no statistics or anything). The implication is of a 20-something% failure rate, instead of the actual, much lower, rate.
7. If you have sex before marriage under ANY circmstance, your partner will automatically think less of you for it.
8. You will be less able to commit to your future spouse for every sex partner you've had before the marriage.
9. Masturbation is, in the words of Thomas Aquinas, "an intrinsically disordered act." The implication is that YOU are a disordered person if you ever do it. (This drove me nearly insane as a teenager, as I was never able to go for more than a month without touching myself.)
10. All abortion is murder, and there is never ever a good reason to have one. It is never the lesser evil under any circumstances.
11. Contraceptive use causes higher abortion rates.
12. Contraceptive use is the primary cause of high divorce rates.
13. Margaret Sanger only supported birth control for eugenicist reasons, and wanted to kill off poor people.
14. Because Margaret Sanger did bad things (by Catholic standards), and also championed the use of voluntary birth control, this makes birth control a bad thing.
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Parabola
New Member
Enter at risk.
Posts: 22
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Post by Parabola on Oct 25, 2011 21:07:32 GMT -5
11. Contraceptive use causes higher abortion rates. Ugh, I actually heard a medical doctor from my town say that. I may have thought he was a nice (albeit insanely pro-life) sort of guy, but I instantly lost all respect for him with that. |
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 26, 2011 14:07:01 GMT -5
In fairness, there is a grain of truth behind a lot of those lessons from Catholic sex ed. Its the way they are spun, and that only half the story is given, that makes them dishonest.
E.g;
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