Post by Tiberius on Oct 24, 2011 23:10:29 GMT -5
Got into a debate with a friend over unemployment today. As it says at the end, we took a rain check so that both of us could prepare more data, so any relevant links would be helpful for when we resume.
9:35 PM - Edward Lapine: Heya Tiberius
9:35 PM - Edward Lapine: How goes it?
9:37 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Reading depressing stuff on Christian message boards again. Someone who lost thier job, and thier healthcare with it, in January had to have surgery that is costing them 22000 dollars, and they don;t have the money to pay it off. But Public Healthcare is still evil and socialist.
9:38 PM - Edward Lapine: I know the frustration you're feeling
9:38 PM - Edward Lapine: I've responded to calls where the patient refuses to go to the hospital because they can't afford it
9:39 PM - Edward Lapine: Knowing what I know about medicine? It should be a bit more socialized and such
9:39 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Of course, since I am a dick, I am sorely tempted to apply what they say in any other thread to this one, and say something like "WHY DON'T YOU GET A JOB THEN AND PAY FOR IT? YOU SAY YOU LOST YOUR JOB IN JANUARY? THAT IS ALMOST A YEAR AGO! WHIT WHINING YOU SMELLY HIPPIE!"
9:40 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Considering they go on and on about how anyone can get a job if they work hard enough.
9:40 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: And if you don;t want it, it is because you don;t want the job.
9:40 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: don;t have one*
9:41 PM - Edward Lapine: there are so many sides to the "I CAN'T GET A JOB, ECONOMY SUCKS"
9:41 PM - Edward Lapine: For instance, there are plenty of jobs out there, but they may not be ideal to you and I
9:41 PM - Edward Lapine: think I wanted to be a paramedic? Fuck no. I wish I could've taken a music major and just play piano for a living and make music
9:41 PM - Edward Lapine: but, I feel it's a great job, least sucky, and I get paid decently
9:42 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30 nods.
9:42 PM - Edward Lapine: I feel the people who bitch about the job market are the people who can't get their "dream job"
9:42 PM - Edward Lapine: Flanowa is a great example
9:42 PM - Edward Lapine: he's more into creative, artsy stuff... which is awesome, but that doesn't garner any sort of money
9:42 PM - Edward Lapine: or at least it'
9:42 PM - Edward Lapine: it's very hard to do so
9:43 PM - Edward Lapine: healthcare is profitable, so I'm in healthcare... but luckily, I at least like it
9:43 PM - Edward Lapine: There are plenty of jobs out there to pick, so quit bitching and get one
9:43 PM - Edward Lapine: s'why I'm mixed about the "Occupy Wall Street" people
9:43 PM - Edward Lapine: yeah, corporate greed sucks, it blows... fuck them
9:44 PM - Edward Lapine: but the majority of protestors there are fresh outta college white kids who can't seem to get their dream job they want and won't settle for anything less
9:44 PM - Edward Lapine: I have a degree in Sociology... which really means nothing. I'm not pissed about it, I enjoyed taking the classes
9:44 PM - Edward Lapine: nobody owes me anything
9:44 PM - Edward Lapine: but holy shit I'm going off on a tangent, Tiberius
9:47 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: I feel this is relevant. blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/12/vital-signs-more-unemployed-per-job-openings/
9:47 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Note that this doesn't count people who are underemployed and looking for work, or people who are not on unemployment.
9:48 PM - Edward Lapine: yeah, I was about to add
9:48 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: But having 4.6 unemployed per job opening is pretty bad.
9:48 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: For some, you can;t actually get a job, or of you can, it's something like 20 hours a week at McDonalds for minimum wage.
9:49 PM - Edward Lapine: So many variables come into play with that graph and statistic that it may or may not neglect
9:51 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Might you care to cite something supporting your side? Not trying to be rude (which is how a lot of people take it when one asks for citation), just figure it is a sign of good will.
9:52 PM - Edward Lapine: I understand~
9:52 PM - Edward Lapine: can't think of anything off the top of my head~
9:52 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: I am looking for more data too. I realize I have onlyu provided one link.
9:52 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Also. You have at least been a lot more civilized than my usual fare as far as debates go :3.
9:53 PM - Edward Lapine: but usually from what I've seen from "unemployed" statistics... they forget to mention the following in the unemployment stuff...
9:53 PM - Edward Lapine: 1 - People who are unemployed who generally want to stay unemployed
9:53 PM - Edward Lapine: 2 - Usually people count employment as working 36+ hours a week, part time jobs usually don't come into play with a lot of unemployment statistics
9:54 PM - Edward Lapine: Tiberius, I'm kinda sorta intoxicated, so I'm not the best debate partner right now, lemme think...
9:54 PM - Edward Lapine: waiting for Battlefield 3 to download :-\
9:54 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Ah. We can continue another time.
9:54 PM - Edward Lapine: I still wanna talk
9:54 PM - Edward Lapine: but still, don
9:55 PM - Edward Lapine: don't* get me wrong... unemployment is an issue out there
9:55 PM - Edward Lapine: but one thing to consider as well~
9:56 PM - Edward Lapine: we're in the current trend and age where the baby boomers are starting to get old and not of prime working age anymore... we did quite awesome in the 90s and early 2000s because that was like the prime working age
9:56 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Here is a more comprehensive set of data. www.economicpopulist.org/content/job-jolts-there-are-457-unemployed-job-opening-august-2011
9:56 PM - Edward Lapine: this is merely a theory
9:56 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: And these ones include part time jobs.
9:56 PM - Edward Lapine: now, they're starting to get older and such, they're retiring, and all those jobs that helped the economy are now gone since well, not as many of the next generation (Gen X'ers and Gen Y'ers) can't fill those shoes and don't want to
9:57 PM - Edward Lapine: also, baby boomers suck anyways because they're self entitled douchebags from what I've observed
9:58 PM - Edward Lapine: but it's a simple fact, we had more people to work these jobs back in the day, and now we don't have them anymore
10:00 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Well. As I said, I am going to need some citation for all of this.
10:01 PM - Edward Lapine: erf, you're right :-\
10:01 PM - Edward Lapine: I'm going by what I've seen on Fark and what people on Something Awful said. There was citations, but I forget them
10:04 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Hmm. Well. As I said, we could take a rain check to give us more time to prepare. Having to search desparately for citation in the middle of a debate is hardly conducive to reaching a valid conclusion.
10:05 PM - Edward Lapine: of course, but the thing is... I'm not necessarily against you nor do I have a particular point I wish to argue with you
10:05 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Oh. Of course. It's not like I'm offended! This is a purely intellectual thing. I'm hoping that both of us can learn something from it :3.
10:06 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: I rather like you after all, and value your opinion.
10:06 PM - Edward Lapine: Thanks Tiberius, and you're not a typical furry who's not well learned on what he/she rants about
I know I was rather more passive than I should have been, but I wanted to find citation before making arguments.
9:35 PM - Edward Lapine: Heya Tiberius
9:35 PM - Edward Lapine: How goes it?
9:37 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Reading depressing stuff on Christian message boards again. Someone who lost thier job, and thier healthcare with it, in January had to have surgery that is costing them 22000 dollars, and they don;t have the money to pay it off. But Public Healthcare is still evil and socialist.
9:38 PM - Edward Lapine: I know the frustration you're feeling
9:38 PM - Edward Lapine: I've responded to calls where the patient refuses to go to the hospital because they can't afford it
9:39 PM - Edward Lapine: Knowing what I know about medicine? It should be a bit more socialized and such
9:39 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Of course, since I am a dick, I am sorely tempted to apply what they say in any other thread to this one, and say something like "WHY DON'T YOU GET A JOB THEN AND PAY FOR IT? YOU SAY YOU LOST YOUR JOB IN JANUARY? THAT IS ALMOST A YEAR AGO! WHIT WHINING YOU SMELLY HIPPIE!"
9:40 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Considering they go on and on about how anyone can get a job if they work hard enough.
9:40 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: And if you don;t want it, it is because you don;t want the job.
9:40 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: don;t have one*
9:41 PM - Edward Lapine: there are so many sides to the "I CAN'T GET A JOB, ECONOMY SUCKS"
9:41 PM - Edward Lapine: For instance, there are plenty of jobs out there, but they may not be ideal to you and I
9:41 PM - Edward Lapine: think I wanted to be a paramedic? Fuck no. I wish I could've taken a music major and just play piano for a living and make music
9:41 PM - Edward Lapine: but, I feel it's a great job, least sucky, and I get paid decently
9:42 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30 nods.
9:42 PM - Edward Lapine: I feel the people who bitch about the job market are the people who can't get their "dream job"
9:42 PM - Edward Lapine: Flanowa is a great example
9:42 PM - Edward Lapine: he's more into creative, artsy stuff... which is awesome, but that doesn't garner any sort of money
9:42 PM - Edward Lapine: or at least it'
9:42 PM - Edward Lapine: it's very hard to do so
9:43 PM - Edward Lapine: healthcare is profitable, so I'm in healthcare... but luckily, I at least like it
9:43 PM - Edward Lapine: There are plenty of jobs out there to pick, so quit bitching and get one
9:43 PM - Edward Lapine: s'why I'm mixed about the "Occupy Wall Street" people
9:43 PM - Edward Lapine: yeah, corporate greed sucks, it blows... fuck them
9:44 PM - Edward Lapine: but the majority of protestors there are fresh outta college white kids who can't seem to get their dream job they want and won't settle for anything less
9:44 PM - Edward Lapine: I have a degree in Sociology... which really means nothing. I'm not pissed about it, I enjoyed taking the classes
9:44 PM - Edward Lapine: nobody owes me anything
9:44 PM - Edward Lapine: but holy shit I'm going off on a tangent, Tiberius
9:47 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: I feel this is relevant. blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/12/vital-signs-more-unemployed-per-job-openings/
9:47 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Note that this doesn't count people who are underemployed and looking for work, or people who are not on unemployment.
9:48 PM - Edward Lapine: yeah, I was about to add
9:48 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: But having 4.6 unemployed per job opening is pretty bad.
9:48 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: For some, you can;t actually get a job, or of you can, it's something like 20 hours a week at McDonalds for minimum wage.
9:49 PM - Edward Lapine: So many variables come into play with that graph and statistic that it may or may not neglect
9:51 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Might you care to cite something supporting your side? Not trying to be rude (which is how a lot of people take it when one asks for citation), just figure it is a sign of good will.
9:52 PM - Edward Lapine: I understand~
9:52 PM - Edward Lapine: can't think of anything off the top of my head~
9:52 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: I am looking for more data too. I realize I have onlyu provided one link.
9:52 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Also. You have at least been a lot more civilized than my usual fare as far as debates go :3.
9:53 PM - Edward Lapine: but usually from what I've seen from "unemployed" statistics... they forget to mention the following in the unemployment stuff...
9:53 PM - Edward Lapine: 1 - People who are unemployed who generally want to stay unemployed
9:53 PM - Edward Lapine: 2 - Usually people count employment as working 36+ hours a week, part time jobs usually don't come into play with a lot of unemployment statistics
9:54 PM - Edward Lapine: Tiberius, I'm kinda sorta intoxicated, so I'm not the best debate partner right now, lemme think...
9:54 PM - Edward Lapine: waiting for Battlefield 3 to download :-\
9:54 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Ah. We can continue another time.
9:54 PM - Edward Lapine: I still wanna talk
9:54 PM - Edward Lapine: but still, don
9:55 PM - Edward Lapine: don't* get me wrong... unemployment is an issue out there
9:55 PM - Edward Lapine: but one thing to consider as well~
9:56 PM - Edward Lapine: we're in the current trend and age where the baby boomers are starting to get old and not of prime working age anymore... we did quite awesome in the 90s and early 2000s because that was like the prime working age
9:56 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Here is a more comprehensive set of data. www.economicpopulist.org/content/job-jolts-there-are-457-unemployed-job-opening-august-2011
9:56 PM - Edward Lapine: this is merely a theory
9:56 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: And these ones include part time jobs.
9:56 PM - Edward Lapine: now, they're starting to get older and such, they're retiring, and all those jobs that helped the economy are now gone since well, not as many of the next generation (Gen X'ers and Gen Y'ers) can't fill those shoes and don't want to
9:57 PM - Edward Lapine: also, baby boomers suck anyways because they're self entitled douchebags from what I've observed
9:58 PM - Edward Lapine: but it's a simple fact, we had more people to work these jobs back in the day, and now we don't have them anymore
10:00 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Well. As I said, I am going to need some citation for all of this.
10:01 PM - Edward Lapine: erf, you're right :-\
10:01 PM - Edward Lapine: I'm going by what I've seen on Fark and what people on Something Awful said. There was citations, but I forget them
10:04 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Hmm. Well. As I said, we could take a rain check to give us more time to prepare. Having to search desparately for citation in the middle of a debate is hardly conducive to reaching a valid conclusion.
10:05 PM - Edward Lapine: of course, but the thing is... I'm not necessarily against you nor do I have a particular point I wish to argue with you
10:05 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: Oh. Of course. It's not like I'm offended! This is a purely intellectual thing. I'm hoping that both of us can learn something from it :3.
10:06 PM - Tibbles wants crate 30: I rather like you after all, and value your opinion.
10:06 PM - Edward Lapine: Thanks Tiberius, and you're not a typical furry who's not well learned on what he/she rants about
I know I was rather more passive than I should have been, but I wanted to find citation before making arguments.
