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Post by Madame Scarlet on May 7, 2009 9:00:47 GMT -5
Not at all. I barely even prayed when I was a fundie, but I felt guilty about that. I just never knew what to say. I would try, and it would just feel awkward. Being asked to pray out loud at church or for meals was even worse.
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Post by The_L on May 7, 2009 10:23:35 GMT -5
Prayer is not magic. When I pray, I ask God for strength to do what I need to do. Things aren't just going to magically happen. If there is a God, and I think that there is, He doesn't seem to be zapping people's problems. It's up to us to get things done. Some fundies seem to treat prayer like black magic. I recall a pastor who prayed for the deaths of the leaders of Americans United for Seperation of Church and State (who are themselves Christians, and damn fine men at that, but apparently they're not Real True Christians (TM)). I half expected the fuckwit to be dancing around a boiling cauldron chanting in rhyme or some shit like that. I'll have to tell you guys about the Magic Jesus Prayer some time. I can rant on that for hours. This. All of this.
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ytdn
New Member
Posts: 35
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Post by ytdn on May 7, 2009 12:04:20 GMT -5
Prayer is not magic. When I pray, I ask God for strength to do what I need to do. Things aren't just going to magically happen. If there is a God, and I think that there is, He doesn't seem to be zapping people's problems. It's up to us to get things done. That's basically what my prayers are. The way I see it, God gave us free will, but that also means we have to be responsible for our own problems. He's not going to bend over backwards to accomadate our every need. That's not how He rolls.
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Post by Jedi Knight on May 7, 2009 19:38:28 GMT -5
Prayer is not magic. When I pray, I ask God for strength to do what I need to do. Things aren't just going to magically happen. If there is a God, and I think that there is, He doesn't seem to be zapping people's problems. It's up to us to get things done. I have to disagree with you. During my searching years, I dabbled in several magical traditions. Development of personal strength is the very essence of many of them. Consider a spiritual journey, in this case a meditation led by a shaman, where you communicate with your inner child. By most participants this is seen as a magical act, and the sole purpose is to strengthen yourself. So I see prayer as a similar act of magic.
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Post by Oriet on May 8, 2009 4:47:11 GMT -5
Finally, I do get annoyed when people project their judgments into their prayers; "Please, God, make the abortion doctor get hit by a truck." I have a slightly different problem with prayers like that and it's this: if you really believe that praying works, praying for someone to die is essentially attempted murder. I have that very same problem. The desire for the person's death is still there, just as strongly, as one who would take physical action. That they even believe it has a chance to work shows they're attempting it; I just don't think you could enact any laws against that, cause it gets too fuzzy. When I was Lutheran, I used to pray at times. Normally just listened in on other prayers, like at service or the table, and felt awkward trying to make a prayer myself. Course, when left to my own devices I never prayed before a meal, or before bed. I tried now and again, but it never did anything, was a waste of time, and ended up making me feel more helpless and pathetic cause it never happened, no matter how selfless it was either. One thing that always made me uncomfortable, became exacerbated when I was agnostic, and now I just find funny as an atheist, is how my grandparents always have "bless this food so that it might nourish our bodies" in the prayer before a meal. Like, what, it would give any nutrients if you ask? Like asking somehow increases it's nutritional value? Yeah, I just don't get that. So, while I might wish for things to go one way or another, any vocalising is just to help reduce the anxieties so I can better focus on how to handle things and thinking out loud. Sure I use "god dammit," "ye gods," and other such, but they have nice sounds and I'm just as likely to use "bloody hell" or "fucking 'ell" when things get worse. Nothing significant about it, it really is cause it has nice vocalizations and is similar to curses others' use and so is closer to the top of my mind.
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Post by The Lazy One on May 8, 2009 5:05:13 GMT -5
I don't pray, but I will occasionally say, "Oh my god!", "Oh god!", or "Goddammit!"
Old habits die hard...
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Post by Oriet on May 8, 2009 6:03:47 GMT -5
I don't pray, but I will occasionally say, "Oh my god!", "Oh god!", or "Goddammit!" Old habits die hard... I actually didn't start using them until I shed my faith (though that's cause of that whole fear of damnation without respite bit). Oh well, makes me happy cause now I have more utterances to use to curse something with!
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Post by Paradox on May 8, 2009 8:23:13 GMT -5
Prayer is not magic. When I pray, I ask God for strength to do what I need to do. Things aren't just going to magically happen. If there is a God, and I think that there is, He doesn't seem to be zapping people's problems. It's up to us to get things done. I have to disagree with you. During my searching years, I dabbled in several magical traditions. Development of personal strength is the very essence of many of them. Consider a spiritual journey, in this case a meditation led by a shaman, where you communicate with your inner child. By most participants this is seen as a magical act, and the sole purpose is to strengthen yourself. So I see prayer as a similar act of magic. That's an excellent point. I don't mean to disparage anyone's beliefs. I'm sure there's a technical term for what I'm getting at, but I'm sure you understand what I'm trying to say.
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Post by Paradox on May 8, 2009 8:25:36 GMT -5
I have a slightly different problem with prayers like that and it's this: if you really believe that praying works, praying for someone to die is essentially attempted murder. I have that very same problem. The desire for the person's death is still there, just as strongly, as one who would take physical action. That they even believe it has a chance to work shows they're attempting it; I just don't think you could enact any laws against that, cause it gets too fuzzy. That ties into my point rather nicely. If a Christian prays for somebody to die, then they ought to be working towards that end. I'm pretty sure that's a sin, at least in your more liberal sects.
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Post by Jedi Knight on May 8, 2009 11:42:04 GMT -5
That's an excellent point. I don't mean to disparage anyone's beliefs. I'm sure there's a technical term for what I'm getting at, but I'm sure you understand what I'm trying to say. Yes, I do. That's really why I wanted to clarify my point of view. Once that was done, it turns out we don't really disagree at all. Nice.
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Post by devilschaplain2 on May 8, 2009 11:47:45 GMT -5
Pray? To who?
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Post by canadian mojo on May 8, 2009 13:18:48 GMT -5
Sure I use "god dammit," "ye gods," and other such, but they have nice sounds and I'm just as likely to use "bloody hell" or "fucking 'ell" when things get worse. Nothing significant about it, it really is cause it has nice vocalizations and is similar to curses others' use and so is closer to the top of my mind. So very true. I don't think there is a god to condemn somebody at my request any more than I think that same-said individual does actually engage in sexual relations with their mother. ;D
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adoylelb90815
Full Member
I'm the feminist intellectual fundies warned you about
Posts: 120
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Post by adoylelb90815 on May 14, 2009 15:24:34 GMT -5
I'm not a doctor, but I think that prayer is nothing more than a placebo at best since it doesn't always work as well as modern medicine does. I'm familiar with that study that shows that people who knew they were prayed for or had oil dropped on their heads for a "blessing" were more likely to die or not make a full recovery than those who didn't get prayers or blessings done. Those praying let themselves off the hook by saying that God wanted the person to die or not fully recover.
The other reason why I think prayer is useless is that so many people use it for selfish reasons instead of getting closer to their God. If food isn't cooked properly or kept at the "danger zone" for food poisoning, no amount of prayer is going to protect you from getting sick.
I meditate as a way to clear my mind and to relieve stress. To me, that's more effective since by reducing stress, I'm healthier in the end.
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