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Post by clockworkgirl21 on May 6, 2009 4:17:30 GMT -5
The biggest problem with prayer is that people decide to pray instead of helping the situation.
I will pray if I've done all I can to help first. I'm agnostic, so I don't pray to any one god. I pray to whoever or whatever might be listening. I know there might be no one there, but also, there might be. No one knows. If anything, it makes me feel better. I know I've done all I can do, and prayed, so the situation is totally out of my hands.
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Post by deliciousdemon on May 6, 2009 5:38:37 GMT -5
No. It's useless to me. It doesn't make me feel better, and I have a hard time accepting that people actually think it works, although I can understand it provides comfort to them.
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Post by Art Vandelay on May 6, 2009 6:00:58 GMT -5
I can't say I've ever got anything out of it. I remember thinking during prayer at primary school "Ye gods I feel like such a twat talking to myself...".
Ironic seeing as I almost compulsively think out loud when (I think) nobody is within earshot.
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Zabimaru
Full Member
Always amused and bemused
Posts: 241
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Post by Zabimaru on May 6, 2009 6:37:41 GMT -5
That's depends entirely on your definition of prayer.
For instance, at the moment I'm hoping very much that I will hear back from an old friend whom I've been trying to get back in touch with. Every time I see that my Gmail Notifier says that I have new, unread mail I hope that it's from her, and I will think something like "Please let it be from her."
Now, I'd just say that this is an expression of my hope. But I've talked to a lot of fundies of the "There is no such thing as atheists!"-variety who claim that this is prayer. They say that those little things prove that everyone will pray when we're in a pinch or really want something to happen - ergo we all believe in God. And apparently it means that we believe in their particular god.
Anyway, I don't think that I pray. I don't make any conscious effort to pray. If I were in a foxhole I'd hope for my safety and I would probably express that hope in words, but to me I'd still be an atheist in a foxhole. But others would say that I pray, according to their definition of prayer.
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Post by schizophonic on May 6, 2009 7:35:26 GMT -5
What Zabi said, pretty much.
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Post by atheiess on May 6, 2009 8:17:07 GMT -5
There was a medical study several years ago that measured the value of prayer on heart attack survivors. I'm sure some of you must have seen it. The results basically said that people who were being prayed for, and knew they were being prayed for, didn't recover as well as those who were not prayed for, and were also more likely to die. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4681771.stmIf you believe in god I think this is your sign that he doesn't want you to pray.
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Post by rookie on May 6, 2009 8:27:49 GMT -5
If I were in a foxhole I'd hope for my safety and I would probably express that hope in words, but to me I'd still be an atheist in a foxhole. I was an atheist in a foxhole. I did a lot of swearing but I never "prayed" to anyone or anything. Yes, I did say god a lot. And I do wish that one day people would realize that "god damn it" or "thank god" are expressions and not actually someone asking god to damn something or truly thanking god for something.
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Post by deliciousdemon on May 6, 2009 8:31:22 GMT -5
What Zabi said, pretty much. He makes a good point. I do 'wish' for things on what is probably a regular basis. 'Please don't rain' or 'Please don't spill that drink you slag' sort of things. I don't consider it prayer, but some might.
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Post by schizophonic on May 6, 2009 11:36:21 GMT -5
If I were in a foxhole I'd hope for my safety and I would probably express that hope in words, but to me I'd still be an atheist in a foxhole. I was an atheist in a foxhole. I did a lot of swearing but I never "prayed" to anyone or anything. Yes, I did say god a lot. And I do wish that one day people would realize that "god damn it" or "thank god" are expressions and not actually someone asking god to damn something or truly thanking god for something. One of my friends used to rant at me over that. I wasn't praying to God, asking Him to damn someone, orordering him around. In the worst moments of my adult life, I don't think I've ever prayed for anything. I do say a lot of "God Damn, Oh God, Good God, Sweet motherfucking Jesus" and so on....But it's because I grew up in a Christian family who said that stuff all the time. And sometimes, I say things like "please don't let it rain," but like delicious said, I don't consider it prayer. I also mean something different by it. That is, I'm not praying to someone or something, I'm essentially saying "I hope that it doesn't rain." I'm not actually addressing it to anyone, and I'm not actually expecting a response. Now, I've had some pretty bad moments in my life. I'm not saying it's worse than others, because most of the bad points in my life are the same ones most of you have had. Loss, injury, deaths. I'm just saying, in my darkest days, I've never really felt the need to pray. Not for a sick loved one, not when I myself was injured, not for anything. Some people do think I'm not really agnostic because I say "Oh Dear God!" They probably also think I mean it when I say "I've kissed mermaids, rode the El NiƱo, walked the sands with the crustaceans..." Yes, guys, I really did sail away on a Wave of Mutilation. Rock Me, Joe....
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Post by antichrist on May 6, 2009 11:42:49 GMT -5
I've heard the same argument. Although they get just as upset if you yell "Oh Fuck" instead of oh god.
Doesn't a prayer have to be aimed at someone/something? When I was growing up, I was told meditation was evil because you emptied your mind (therefore giving Satan room to move in), now they try and tell me it's a form of prayer.
Make up your mind.
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Post by Jebediah on May 6, 2009 11:43:19 GMT -5
I never prayed, not even as a kid. My parents are weird about that kind of thing and they never wanted us to. They also dislike saying grace before a meal. The only time we did that was at my grandma's house.
The closest I get to praying is thinking, "Please let my class be cancelled" when I wake up in the morning. Like Zabi and Amaranth said, that's not really praying. It's more wishing out loud.
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Post by The_L on May 6, 2009 12:46:33 GMT -5
I pray at the same time I'm doing what I can to help. Basically, I pray that I'll make wise choices, because I want to do the right thing--after all, I need what I'm doing to work. I've also prayed for courage during tough times.
But to pray without doing anything is just stupid. The gods help those who help themselves, after all.
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Post by id82 on May 6, 2009 13:24:19 GMT -5
I always thought prayer should be a more meditative concept. Clearing your mind and getting closer to God. Not to be used to suit your own selfish desires, which is what most christian people use it for.
I don't pray, I meditate sometimes just to help me clear my mind.
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Post by Old Viking on May 6, 2009 13:29:21 GMT -5
PRAY, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
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Post by mice34 on May 6, 2009 13:42:15 GMT -5
PRAY, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy. Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary ^ No. Even when I believed in God, it never did a damn bit of good, because it doesn't work. It just made me anxious and self-loathing. I admit to talking to myself all the time. I narrate. Narrating, I think, is the one thing humans do that no other animal does. That's all anyone who prays is doing, they're just not being honest about it.
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