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Post by Trillian on May 8, 2009 3:46:56 GMT -5
Why is it that the fundies always relate morals, values and responsibility to Christianity?
It really just so pisses me off. It takes away all personal responsibility. So they can use the excuse "I stopped listening to God, and sinned by stealing all that money from the poor people with my fraudulent scam." So that they can be forgiven, and given an out.
At least an atheist says "Geez, I fucked up - who can I blame? Only me."
We lived in a poor neighbourhood when I was growing up. My mom was a single parent of 5 kids between 4 and 14 - and she went to work every day to a crappy job, with crappy pay, so that we could have decent lives.
About 90% of the people who lived in that neighbourhood didn't work at all, and one particular family comes to mind. Neither of the parents worked, for no other reason that pure laziness. They were totally fundie, and survived all those years by the kindness of strangers, charity and sheer blind luck.
There was a grocer who (out of the kindness of his heart) used to give them a HUGE back of veggies. Every time he dropped off the veggies, the mother would say "Thank You Lord, we knew you would provide".
Eventually Mr. Grocer must have gotten really sick of it (as would I), and said "No, the Lord didn't provide - I did."
And that was the last we ever saw of him delivering free groceries to this particular family!
I know I went off point there a bit, but it all really relates to the same thing really.
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Post by Paradox on May 8, 2009 8:28:52 GMT -5
Myopia. They are either incapable or unwilling to view the world except through their own very narrow way of looking at it. It's not an intentional thing, for many its how they've been brought up since birth. They just can't see, or don't want to see, that there are other standards for morality. Or even that other non-Christians are capable of being good people. I've heard Christians say that they pity atheists and the like for not being able to experience true love. Any sort of true love. It seems pretty damn arrogant to insist that you know what other people do and do not feel, even thought the other people object, but these folks have never looked at it any other way.
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Post by Hades on May 8, 2009 8:49:46 GMT -5
is not my fault, teh debil tempted me. les not 4get we liv in a fallen creashun.
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Post by Captain Obvious on May 8, 2009 8:51:35 GMT -5
What's worse is when they claim that "Atheists just deny god so they don't have to be responsible for their actions!" Which makes absolutely no sense since as an Atheist I claim full responsibility for everything I do, and I don't believe in the afterlife. So any punishment given to me is taking up my precious lifetime that I can never recover. Much less if I got the death penalty for some reason as that would put an end to the whole shebang.
Fundies believe that morals come from Christianity because they are afraid of death, and they NEED to believe that there is something special about their religion. Because at the end of the day they are frightened little kids shivering under a security blanket. We keep trying to take that blanket away and make them face the world but they keep telling us, "You don't have a blanket, you can't understand."
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Post by schizophonic on May 8, 2009 9:08:08 GMT -5
is not my fault, teh debil tempted me. les not 4get we liv in a fallen creashun. Indeed. One of the draws to Christianity is, after all, salvation. It's not a leap to say that the draw is the notion that someone else is responsible for your failings, or that you are inherrently weak because God made you so.
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Post by ausador on May 8, 2009 11:07:51 GMT -5
What's worse is when they claim that "Atheists just deny god so they don't have to be responsible for their actions!" Which makes absolutely no sense since as an Atheist I claim full responsibility for everything I do, and I don't believe in the afterlife. So any punishment given to me is taking up my precious lifetime that I can never recover. Much less if I got the death penalty for some reason as that would put an end to the whole shebang. Fundies believe that morals come from Christianity because they are afraid of death, and they NEED to believe that there is something special about their religion. Because at the end of the day they are frightened little kids shivering under a security blanket. We keep trying to take that blanket away and make them face the world but they keep telling us, "You don't have a blanket, you can't understand." QFT +1
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Post by Jedi Knight on May 8, 2009 12:06:25 GMT -5
What's worse is when they claim that "Atheists just deny god so they don't have to be responsible for their actions!" Which makes absolutely no sense since as an Atheist I claim full responsibility for everything I do, and I don't believe in the afterlife. So any punishment given to me is taking up my precious lifetime that I can never recover. Much less if I got the death penalty for some reason as that would put an end to the whole shebang. Fundies believe that morals come from Christianity because they are afraid of death, and they NEED to believe that there is something special about their religion. Because at the end of the day they are frightened little kids shivering under a security blanket. We keep trying to take that blanket away and make them face the world but they keep telling us, "You don't have a blanket, you can't understand." Well reasoned & nicely phrased. You, sir, gain access to the Ravenclaw common room. I'll also double your karma. Still strange, they must know there are non-christian countries in the world. How can they imagane a working society without a set of moral rules?
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Post by Yaezakura on May 8, 2009 12:23:29 GMT -5
They simply can not or will not accept that morals can exist without God. And more specifically, their own God.
They say it all the time. "Without God, there's nothing to stop me from just murdering and raping whoever and whenever I feel like it." Which is rather scary when you stop to consider that means the only thing stopping these people from being horribly dangerous to society are their religious beliefs.
If they weren't so anti-science, they'd realize that morals are, at least on their most basic levels, hard-coded into our genes. All social animals follow a set of pro-societal rules that aren't always in the best interest of the individual, but are in the best interest of the group. Sentience, of course, greatly expands on the abilities to organize social structures, thus why our own moral codes are generally more advanced and varied than the simplistic (though entirely functional) moral codes of other social animals.
Of course, if you try to explain that to a fundie, they'll simply plug their ears and go "No, GODDIDIT!". I sometimes really feel sorry for these people.
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Post by canadian mojo on May 8, 2009 12:56:31 GMT -5
Of course, if you try to explain that to a fundie, they'll simply plug their ears and go "No, GODDIDIT!". I sometimes really feel sorry for these people. I'd feel sorry for them too if they weren't so fucking destructive as a group.
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Post by Old Viking on May 8, 2009 16:55:11 GMT -5
They think what they've been taught to think. They say what they've been taught to say.
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Post by rookie on May 8, 2009 17:59:56 GMT -5
I hate that too. That has to be my pet peeve with these idiots. What they are basically telling me is that because god told them not to rape and kill and steal and lie, they don't. And if god never drafted that memo, they would be doing these things. They ask how I can be a good person without christ in my life. I answer that if you can't be a good person without christ in your life, then you will not be a good person with the sorry SOB.
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Post by Jedi Knight on May 8, 2009 18:38:25 GMT -5
They simply can not or will not accept that morals can exist without God. And more specifically, their own God. They say it all the time. "Without God, there's nothing to stop me from just murdering and raping whoever and whenever I feel like it." Which is rather scary when you stop to consider that means the only thing stopping these people from being horribly dangerous to society are their religious beliefs. If they weren't so anti-science, they'd realize that morals are, at least on their most basic levels, hard-coded into our genes. All social animals follow a set of pro-societal rules that aren't always in the best interest of the individual, but are in the best interest of the group. Sentience, of course, greatly expands on the abilities to organize social structures, thus why our own moral codes are generally more advanced and varied than the simplistic (though entirely functional) moral codes of other social animals. Of course, if you try to explain that to a fundie, they'll simply plug their ears and go "No, GODDIDIT!". I sometimes really feel sorry for these people. You must be a clear-minded young woman, or your views wouldn't be so similar to mine...exalt! I mean, I agree with you, but you outperform my knowledge both on this subject and in the English language. You have my respect, though you never asked for it. I hate that too. That has to be my pet peeve with these idiots. What they are basically telling me is that because god told them not to rape and kill and steal and lie, they don't. And if god never drafted that memo, they would be doing these things. They ask how I can be a good person without christ in my life. I answer that if you can't be a good person without christ in your life, then you will not be a good person with the sorry SOB. I think you're on to something here. You must have heard them claim that there are no true atheists. In a twisted mind, this makes perfect sense. You see, you're not really an atheist/pagan/muslim or whatever, you're secretly a christian, or you could not be a good person. For all that is good comes from God! QED!
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Post by Yaezakura on May 8, 2009 20:19:41 GMT -5
You must be a clear-minded young woman, or your views wouldn't be so similar to mine...exalt! I mean, I agree with you, but you outperform my knowledge both on this subject and in the English language. You have my respect, though you never asked for it. Aw... shucks... thanks... ^_^;
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Post by John E on May 8, 2009 21:03:04 GMT -5
I hate that too. That has to be my pet peeve with these idiots. What they are basically telling me is that because god told them not to rape and kill and steal and lie, they don't. And if god never drafted that memo, they would be doing these things. They ask how I can be a good person without christ in my life. I answer that if you can't be a good person without christ in your life, then you will not be a good person with the sorry SOB. When a fundie says that there's no reason/way to be a good person without Christ in your life, I ask them how and why I'm a good person*. They reply that I'm not REALLY a good person, because true goodness is having Christ in your heart. That pisses me off, because they are defining morality as belonging to their religion instead of anything having to do with actual morals. * I'm not bragging. It's just the truth that in a lot of ways I'm very moral, by mainstream Christian standards.
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Post by malendras on May 8, 2009 23:30:38 GMT -5
Wow, Captain Obvious put this way better than I could've ever done. That's exactly what I believe. Exalt, I'm gonna be saving that one (and will give due credit if I use it).
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