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Post by GodIsRealUnlessDeclaredInteger on May 24, 2009 17:24:38 GMT -5
I met a group of evangelicals here in this tiny city. They were very nice people and I had the feeling that they were seriously interested in my well-being, definitely not the scum from RR. Which was the reason why I seriously listened to them and tried to treat them most respectfully.
One of their arguments for Christianity was that no other religion had a God who sacrificed himself for mankind. This is a non-argument in itself since this is not a requirement to make a religion true, but let's forget that for a second. It is also not even true, or am I mistaken here. In Pureland Buddhism a worshipped entity... (excuse my lack of adeptness with the Buddhist terminology) promised to create a holy land where everyone can be reincarnated in, who prays to him and where he takes care of them, sacrificing his own ascension into Nirwana. This is IMHO rather similar.
I have two questions: am I mistaken on the general idea behind Pure land Buddhism? Are there other, contemporary religions, where a God/higher being sacrifices himself 'for us'?
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Post by antichrist on May 24, 2009 19:56:11 GMT -5
I think your thinking of the "Western Heaven". It's not really a heaven, it's a place you go to clean up the last of your Karma before you go to Nirvana. LinkyA Bodhisattva is a person who has decided to help other people find enlightenment rather than go into Nirvana themselves. |
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Post by cosmopants on May 25, 2009 20:32:37 GMT -5
That god sacrificed himself "for mankind" is, I think, a bit dodgy anyway - it's more present in the Christian meta-story than in the bible, but religion is full of gods who die as sacrifices of one kind or another. Odin, for example, was hung between two fires as a sacrifice to himself, the gods of harvest routinely die and are reborn; various sun gods are devoured by serpents or grow old and are reborn in a day: having a god who ressurects himself is slightly less interesting and unique than having a god who gives you rules to obey.
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Post by Art Vandelay on May 25, 2009 21:45:19 GMT -5
Lol, sounds a lot like an argument I got from the campus bible study group on 2 seperate occasions (note: they came to me, I wasn't IRL trolling them or anthing).They said their version of christianity is best because you don't have to do anything other than believe in it and you get into heaven. I mean really, you might as well say you shouldn't believe in gravity because without it you'd be able to fly.
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Post by antichrist on May 25, 2009 22:37:42 GMT -5
I think the difference is that Amida Buddha Didn't sacrifice himself for man. He became a Bodhisattva meaning that he helps others become enlightened. He was not, and is not a god.
I have a few issues with it. The biggest one being if the Amida Buddha was a man who found enlightenment, why do other men need his help?
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Post by lumberjackninja on May 25, 2009 23:28:29 GMT -5
I've always thought the "But God loves you so much he gave his only begotten son to die for your sins!" line was utter tripe.
The only reason he has to die for us is because supposedly we broke the rules (even if we didn't; apparently being born is also a sin). So instead of going through this whole rigamarole with trying to subvert the system... why doesn't God change the system?
If you make the rules and assign the punishments, then you aren't doing anything noble by making somebody else who you care for suffer the punishments of others because you think those others shouldn't be punished; you could just choose not to punish them, or at least have the punishment match the crime.
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Post by GodIsRealUnlessDeclaredInteger on May 26, 2009 5:12:45 GMT -5
Thank you all for your replies. I think the difference is that Amida Buddha Didn't sacrifice himself for man. He became a Bodhisattva meaning that he helps others become enlightened. He was not, and is not a god. I have a few issues with it. The biggest one being if the Amida Buddha was a man who found enlightenment, why do other men need his help? Because enlightenment becomes harder over time, probably because all the good people left already for Nirwana and only the f***tards are left.  |
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Post by Star Cluster on May 26, 2009 7:34:56 GMT -5
I've always thought the "But God loves you so much he gave his only begotten son to die for your sins!" line was utter tripe. The only reason he has to die for us is because supposedly we broke the rules (even if we didn't; apparently being born is also a sin). So instead of going through this whole rigamarole with trying to subvert the system... why doesn't God change the system? If you make the rules and assign the punishments, then you aren't doing anything noble by making somebody else who you care for suffer the punishments of others because you think those others shouldn't be punished; you could just choose not to punish them, or at least have the punishment match the crime. Actually, the idea behind Jesus is exactly what has been mentioned; sacrifice. In OT times, everyone was expected to "sacrifice" the best of whatever they had, usually something from their livelihood. Whether it be the best of the herd, flock, crops, catch, or whatever, those seeking forgiveness were to sacrifice the best they had. And God especially enjoyed animal sacrifice, as we read numerous times in the old time that the OT that the smell of the sacrifice was "a sweet savour unto the Lord." Jesus, on the other hand, being the son of God, yet also being human, was the ultimate being. When he was crucified, this was somehow supposed to atone for all the sins of the world and do away with the practice of all other sacrifices for atonement since no other sacrifice could come close to God giving the best he had to offer to himself; himself. Of course, it still doesn't make a lick of sense, but that's the generalized concept behind it. And yeah, Christianity is not the only religion that has had a messiah be sacrificed, it's just the only one that most Christians will acknowledge that does. |
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Triste
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by Triste on May 26, 2009 10:02:46 GMT -5
Let's not forget the countless thousands of other human beings that have suffered similiar (or worse) fates. To me, the whole "Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice to save us" kinda trivializes the collective amount of suffering that humans have experienced through the ages. When you consider that many, many people were crucified during that period, what is left to make Jesus' sacrifice oh so special?
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