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Post by ausador on Jun 7, 2009 10:20:50 GMT -5
A common falsehood, but still a falsehood. The vast majority of the $$$ was actually from private donations. The bulk of what was supposedly donated was actually in-kind work such as volunteer time or effort; the little bit of cash put forth was a fraction of what came from private hands. The reason why people claim that the church gave huge amounts of money was because of a security breach. Someone got access to a list of donors, cross-referenced it with a list of BYU alumni, and after several matches put out a series of rumors. People picked up on these rumors, and spun it to where the church itself kicked out the money. This goes back to the other groups involved being too large and established for the anti-prop 8 groups to really attack en masse without risking a backlash. Ahem...reality check. The following letter was sent from the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to Church leaders in California to be read to all congregations on 29 June 2008: newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/california-and-same-sex-marriage List of all people who contributed over $1000 to Prop 8 with most of the Mormons on the list identified. Note that Mormons who make up 2% of the population of California gave almost half of all the money donated. Over 16 million dollars of the 35 million. spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pe2023SzWXxE8wYX5qWeoIwAn excellant site that has kept track of Mormon efforts in support of Prop 8 that also supplies links to listings of the actual LDS church political donations. mormonsfor8.com/Stop trying to whitewash the LDS involvement Sky it won't work, you can deny it all you want, no one is going to believe you. |
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Jun 7, 2009 11:48:06 GMT -5
A common falsehood, but still a falsehood. The vast majority of the $$$ was actually from private donations. The bulk of what was supposedly donated was actually in-kind work such as volunteer time or effort; the little bit of cash put forth was a fraction of what came from private hands. The reason why people claim that the church gave huge amounts of money was because of a security breach. Someone got access to a list of donors, cross-referenced it with a list of BYU alumni, and after several matches put out a series of rumors. People picked up on these rumors, and spun it to where the church itself kicked out the money. This goes back to the other groups involved being too large and established for the anti-prop 8 groups to really attack en masse without risking a backlash. Ahem...reality check. The following letter was sent from the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to Church leaders in California to be read to all congregations on 29 June 2008: newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/california-and-same-sex-marriage List of all people who contributed over $1000 to Prop 8 with most of the Mormons on the list identified. Note that Mormons who make up 2% of the population of California gave almost half of all the money donated. Over 16 million dollars of the 35 million. spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pe2023SzWXxE8wYX5qWeoIwAn excellant site that has kept track of Mormon efforts in support of Prop 8 that also supplies links to listings of the actual LDS church political donations. mormonsfor8.com/Stop trying to whitewash the LDS involvement Sky it won't work, you can deny it all you want, no one is going to believe you. Why is he denying it in the first place? Sky isn't in favor of gay marriage is he? If he opposes it, he should be proud of the role his church played in the Prop 8 fiasco. |
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theredstar
New Member
"Blame this on the terrible misfortune of running in to me."
Posts: 20
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Post by theredstar on Jun 7, 2009 12:13:18 GMT -5
What criteria for "dangerous" do you use? Most prominent, pervasive in society, has the greatest influence or the deadliest rhetoric. Under this criteria I'm going to have to agree with the people that say either move Fred Phelps to lower on the list or remove him. Honestly people just view him as a crazy person and has no real influence anymore. |
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Post by Tiger on Jun 7, 2009 13:07:11 GMT -5
A common falsehood, but still a falsehood. The vast majority of the $$$ was actually from private donations. The bulk of what was supposedly donated was actually in-kind work such as volunteer time or effort; the little bit of cash put forth was a fraction of what came from private hands. The reason why people claim that the church gave huge amounts of money was because of a security breach. Someone got access to a list of donors, cross-referenced it with a list of BYU alumni, and after several matches put out a series of rumors. People picked up on these rumors, and spun it to where the church itself kicked out the money. This goes back to the other groups involved being too large and established for the anti-prop 8 groups to really attack en masse without risking a backlash. Ahem...reality check. The following letter was sent from the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to Church leaders in California to be read to all congregations on 29 June 2008: newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/california-and-same-sex-marriage List of all people who contributed over $1000 to Prop 8 with most of the Mormons on the list identified. Note that Mormons who make up 2% of the population of California gave almost half of all the money donated. Over 16 million dollars of the 35 million. spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pe2023SzWXxE8wYX5qWeoIwAn excellant site that has kept track of Mormon efforts in support of Prop 8 that also supplies links to listings of the actual LDS church political donations. mormonsfor8.com/Stop trying to whitewash the LDS involvement Sky it won't work, you can deny it all you want, no one is going to believe you. I think that he was just trying to say that it was individual mormons, not the cult itself, that gave most of the money, a claim that independent fact-checking confirms. The difference is trivial since, as you demonstrated, most of the private donations were directly encouraged by the church leadership, but if that's what Sky was trying to say, he's right. Edit: Except for the part about it being a falsehood. Donations from individual cultists rather than the LDS's treasury are still donations from the LDS. |
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Post by Ian1732 on Jun 7, 2009 13:11:37 GMT -5
*Spit take* Fred Phelps didn't get first!?  |
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Post by snidelywhiplash on Jun 7, 2009 13:21:19 GMT -5
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Jun 7, 2009 13:54:39 GMT -5
Most prominent, pervasive in society, has the greatest influence or the deadliest rhetoric. Under this criteria I'm going to have to agree with the people that say either move Fred Phelps to lower on the list or remove him. Honestly people just view him as a crazy person and has no real influence anymore. Well, I do have several reasons as to why he's there. -His message. Hate the sin AND the sinner. It's really not as common as we'd like to think for homophobes to outright say "faggots deserve death." Usually they hide their true feelings with the tired old "Jesus loves homosexuals, he just doesn't like their behavior" crap. And more people than him feel that way:     -What he preaches is dangerous and can lead to the murder of gay people. I'd be surprised if it hasn't influenced any anti-gay violence. -He and his cult spread misery wherever they go, interrupting funerals and the grieving process. -The only reason other fundamentalists oppose him is because of his anti-American views which he vents out on our service men and women. If he didn't preach that he'd probably have a larger following. |
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Post by rookie on Jun 7, 2009 16:22:33 GMT -5
-What he preaches is dangerous and can lead to the murder of gay people. I'd be surprised if it hasn't influenced any anti-gay violence. -He and his cult spread misery wherever they go, interrupting funerals and the grieving process. -The only reason other fundamentalists oppose him is because of his anti-American views which he vents out on our service men and women. If he didn't preach that he'd probably have a larger following. Yeah, I'm still not sure I'd have him in the top 10. his soldier protests have destroyed much, if not all, of his credibility with the conservative kill-a-fag-and-god-smiles crowd. And in doing so, his message doesn't receive the same importance as he would wish. In short, the newness has worn off and now people aren't paying as much attention to him. He's still good for laughs but I think he's not as much of a threat as he was. |
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Post by ironbite on Jun 7, 2009 23:28:43 GMT -5
10.) Thomas S. Monson: The current head of the most ridiculous cult in America next to Scientology: the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Spent millions of dollars on a crazed campaign to take away the fundamental right of marriage from homosexuals in the form of the outrageous Proposition 8--because the Mormon Church has an obligation to protect the definition of marriage as a bond between a man and a woman....and a woman, and a woman, and a woman. A common falsehood, but still a falsehood. The vast majority of the $$$ was actually from private donations. The bulk of what was supposedly donated was actually in-kind work such as volunteer time or effort; the little bit of cash put forth was a fraction of what came from private hands. The reason why people claim that the church gave huge amounts of money was because of a security breach. Someone got access to a list of donors, cross-referenced it with a list of BYU alumni, and after several matches put out a series of rumors. People picked up on these rumors, and spun it to where the church itself kicked out the money. This goes back to the other groups involved being too large and established for the anti-prop 8 groups to really attack en masse without risking a backlash. It was still an order from on high. Don't try to say that it wasn't when everyone and their mother knows that it was. Your cult had a mission and it succeded in it. Congrats. You exposed yourselves to be bigots of the highest caliber. I'm sure that distinction will give you many new members as you possibly can stand. Ironbite-can't wait for the next cycle when Prop 8 goes away. |
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Post by skyfire on Jun 8, 2009 7:33:32 GMT -5
It was still an order from on high. ...one quite a few people, even in California itself, refused. |
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Post by Maryland Bear on Jun 8, 2009 8:11:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm still not sure I'd have him in the top 10. his soldier protests have destroyed much, if not all, of his credibility with the conservative kill-a-fag-and-god-smiles crowd. And in doing so, his message doesn't receive the same importance as he would wish. In short, the newness has worn off and now people aren't paying as much attention to him. He's still good for laughs but I think he's not as much of a threat as he was. I think even before he started the soldier protests, he was viewed as loon by "mainstream fundies", if there is such a thing. |
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Post by schizophonic on Jun 8, 2009 8:18:02 GMT -5
It was still an order from on high. ...one quite a few people, even in California itself, refused. You're really shifting the bar now, sky. |
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Post by canadian mojo on Jun 8, 2009 8:22:26 GMT -5
It was still an order from on high. ...one quite a few people, even in California itself, refused. Oh, well that makes it okay then.  Come back when your membership moves en masse to remove your leaders and we'll re-evaluate your status as a bunch of dickheads. |
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Post by dasfuchs on Jun 8, 2009 8:30:07 GMT -5
A common falsehood, but still a falsehood. The vast majority of the $$$ was actually from private donations. The bulk of what was supposedly donated was actually in-kind work such as volunteer time or effort; the little bit of cash put forth was a fraction of what came from private hands. The reason why people claim that the church gave huge amounts of money was because of a security breach. Someone got access to a list of donors, cross-referenced it with a list of BYU alumni, and after several matches put out a series of rumors. People picked up on these rumors, and spun it to where the church itself kicked out the money. This goes back to the other groups involved being too large and established for the anti-prop 8 groups to really attack en masse without risking a backlash. Ahem...reality check. The following letter was sent from the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to Church leaders in California to be read to all congregations on 29 June 2008: newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/california-and-same-sex-marriage List of all people who contributed over $1000 to Prop 8 with most of the Mormons on the list identified. Note that Mormons who make up 2% of the population of California gave almost half of all the money donated. Over 16 million dollars of the 35 million. spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pe2023SzWXxE8wYX5qWeoIwAn excellant site that has kept track of Mormon efforts in support of Prop 8 that also supplies links to listings of the actual LDS church political donations. mormonsfor8.com/Stop trying to whitewash the LDS involvement Sky it won't work, you can deny it all you want, no one is going to believe you. Sky, not whitewash his beloved religion that's been shown to be bunk time and time again? You don't know him very well. He'll just twist the words, declare those sites all 'critics' and thus render them void to him, or claim the members were jettisoned Edit Or as seen above, shift the goalposts some more...man, the football field has grown hasn't it, a good mile long now |
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Post by dasfuchs on Jun 8, 2009 8:33:23 GMT -5
-What he preaches is dangerous and can lead to the murder of gay people. I'd be surprised if it hasn't influenced any anti-gay violence. -He and his cult spread misery wherever they go, interrupting funerals and the grieving process. -The only reason other fundamentalists oppose him is because of his anti-American views which he vents out on our service men and women. If he didn't preach that he'd probably have a larger following. Yeah, I'm still not sure I'd have him in the top 10. his soldier protests have destroyed much, if not all, of his credibility with the conservative kill-a-fag-and-god-smiles crowd. And in doing so, his message doesn't receive the same importance as he would wish. In short, the newness has worn off and now people aren't paying as much attention to him. He's still good for laughs but I think he's not as much of a threat as he was. Not to mainstreamers, no, but, to nutters, very yes. It was a nutter, not a mainstreamer that knocked Tiller off. |
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