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Post by katz on Mar 11, 2009 13:37:29 GMT -5
Alright, so we're reading "Paradise Lost" in English and something perked my curiosity. Heaven is supposed to be ultimately blissful and you're not supposed to want for anything, so why did Satan feel the need to rebel? Was something wrong? That wouldn't be very heavenly. Even if he was just a fluke, one third of the angels agreed with him, so obviously something was wrong if only two thirds of the beings in Heaven were actually in bliss.
Answers from the Christian perspective? I'm honestly kinda stumped.
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Post by JonathanE on Mar 11, 2009 13:55:59 GMT -5
Is 'Paradise Lost' actually about the war in heaven, or is it simply a metaphor for something else entirely? Milton was kind of cerebral that way.
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Post by katz on Mar 11, 2009 13:58:38 GMT -5
Is 'Paradise Lost' actually about the war in heaven, or is it simply a metaphor for something else entirely? Milton was kind of cerebral that way. I think it actually is mainly about revolution, considering that Milton was a Roundhead during the English Civil War. Perhaps he even sympathized with Satan a bit; both were rebelling against a divine, majestic, seemingly immortal figure. |
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Post by Lady Renae on Mar 11, 2009 14:22:47 GMT -5
The generally accepted story is that Lucifer, the Morning Star, Left (or Right, I forget which) Hand of God, wanted to be more powerful than he was. He decided for some reason or another that he could (or should) be just as powerful as God Himself and got into a fight with God after rallying other angels to his cause. He, of course, lost the battle, and he and all the angels who fought with him were cast out of Heaven.
I don't know the detailed details, but the most basic telling is "Satan committed the sin of Pride, and thought he was just as powerful as God, but God didn't like this and cast him out along with the angels who followed him in his sin." I've never read the actual story (seeing as it ISN'T in the Bible), but that's the generic hand-me-down oral tradition version.
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Post by Old Viking on Mar 11, 2009 15:29:06 GMT -5
Note that by any objective criteria, Satan is -- by far -- the most admirable charactr in the poem. I don't think Milton intended it that way, but truth will out. Turn now to Dante's Inferno, in which the descriptions of hell and evil are lurid, dramatic and realistic; and the descriptions of goodness and heaven are like reading the side panel of a box of Whip 'N Chill. My conclusion: evil is a whole lot more interesting than goodness.
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Post by The_L on Mar 11, 2009 15:32:43 GMT -5
When I read it, I got the idea that the angels were pretty much forced to do God's bidding, then Satan came along and said "No, I'm going to do whatever I want! You're not going to control me anymore! WHO'S WITH ME?" and 1/3 of the angels were like "yeah, why be his slave when we can have free will?" and they all rebelled.
Although, frankly, I was too amused by the angel giving Adam spoilers for the rest of the Bible to think too much about Satan's motives. I would probably qualify for Mensa if I wasn't so easily distracted by shiny objects.
@viking: I don't know, I personally admired Adam's self-sacrifice in eating the apple. He didn't even know what death was, but he decided any punishment was worth it if it meant he wouldn't be separated from Eve. That's some serious love right there.
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Post by JonathanE on Mar 11, 2009 15:39:30 GMT -5
Is 'Paradise Lost' actually about the war in heaven, or is it simply a metaphor for something else entirely? Milton was kind of cerebral that way. I think it actually is mainly about revolution, considering that Milton was a Roundhead during the English Civil War. Perhaps he even sympathized with Satan a bit; both were rebelling against a divine, majestic, seemingly immortal figure. Milton can be rather windy, but you may be onto something there, katz. Of course, the dissection of this work has countless volumes written about it. Personally, I think that you can't separate Milton's times from the work. More likely than sympathy, though, he was probably using the metaphor to describe the opposition to Roman Catholicism, which makes it a lot more interesting. Contrasting the return to Catholicism that the Roundheads were opposed to with Satan and his minions opposing god, with the Catholics represented by Satan. At any rate, that's my take on it, since I haven't studied it since my university days, I may be having a senior moment. |
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Post by chad sexington on Mar 11, 2009 19:44:42 GMT -5
Note that by any objective criteria, Satan is -- by far -- the most admirable charactr in the poem. I don't think Milton intended it that way, but truth will out. Turn now to Dante's Inferno, in which the descriptions of hell and evil are lurid, dramatic and realistic; and the descriptions of goodness and heaven are like reading the side panel of a box of Whip 'N Chill. My conclusion: evil is a whole lot more interesting than goodness. Blake: "The reason Milton wrote in fetters when he wrote of Angels & God, and at liberty when of Devils & Hell, is because he was a true Poet, and of the Devil's party without knowing it." |
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Post by ltfred on Mar 11, 2009 20:24:08 GMT -5
Note that by any objective criteria, Satan is -- by far -- the most admirable charactr in the poem. I don't think Milton intended it that way, but truth will out. Turn now to Dante's Inferno, in which the descriptions of hell and evil are lurid, dramatic and realistic; and the descriptions of goodness and heaven are like reading the side panel of a box of Whip 'N Chill. My conclusion: evil is a whole lot more interesting than goodness. Only when you define 'evil' as disobedience to an actual evil being, and 'good' as obedience. Pushing people down stairs isn't so fun. |
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Post by Vypernight on Mar 12, 2009 7:26:41 GMT -5
Note that by any objective criteria, Satan is -- by far -- the most admirable charactr in the poem. I don't think Milton intended it that way, but truth will out. Turn now to Dante's Inferno, in which the descriptions of hell and evil are lurid, dramatic and realistic; and the descriptions of goodness and heaven are like reading the side panel of a box of Whip 'N Chill. My conclusion: evil is a whole lot more interesting than goodness. Blake: "The reason Milton wrote in fetters when he wrote of Angels & God, and at liberty when of Devils & Hell, is because he was a true Poet, and of the Devil's party without knowing it." Well said, Lord Blake. |
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