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Post by John E on Jul 30, 2010 18:48:29 GMT -5
Tarot: for entertainment purposes only. Generally, I can't think of one actual way Tarot changed my life. Add "insight into your own psyche" to that and I'll agree with it. Now that I would agree with too. I think how you interpret the cards says more than the cards themselves. I use tarot sometimes myself but I look at it as a way to examine my feelings with regards to the question and to lead me to new ways of looking at it, rather than as any kind of predictor. Used a Tarot deck as a prop in my tabletop RPG days. It was there as a plot device and helped advance the story in weird ways, fact is any type of randomiser (like dice) could have done the same thing. Using a tarot deck adds some cool ambiance though. I think it's a very neat idea, and something I'll steal if I even GM a game.
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Post by worlder on Jul 30, 2010 22:53:37 GMT -5
Tarot: for entertainment purposes only. Generally, I can't think of one actual way Tarot changed my life. Add "insight into your own psyche" to that and I'll agree with it. So it is a pseudo-Rorschach test?
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Jul 30, 2010 23:06:43 GMT -5
Rorschach's Journal. July 31, 2010. 12:03 AM. Stumble across a thread wherein the human cockroaches are arguing about Tarot. Think I'm supposed to be pissed about liberals, or something. Spout some badass Nietzsche quote. Book is critically acclaimed. You're welcome, Moore. Where was I? Oh yeah, Tarot. That like...a poodle, or something? I had a poodle once. Her name was Tammy. But then she ran away. Because God is dead.
(Well, I thought it was funny.)
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Post by Sigmaleph on Jul 30, 2010 23:57:28 GMT -5
I will say there's a difference between using a hammer on a nail and using a mallet on a nail. But the fact of the matter is, Tarot can't provide perfect future predictions. No such thing exists. There might not be perfect future predictions, but there is a huge area between that and Tarot-level vague. I predict the bottle in front of me will fall to the ground when I drop it. (You can't see it, but I assure that's exactly what happened) I predict the words I'm typing right now will appear on an internet forum. (This one you can check for yourself!) And I predict after reading them you'll think that the above two predictions were not valid analogues to the Tarot. Of course, the first prediction is unverifiable, the second you will only read if it's true, and if I'm wrong about the third then I didn't need it anyway since my point was already made. But I suppose you get the general idea. Plenty of things allow specific predictions. Vagueness in a predictive method is one obvious mark that it's not terribly useful and prone to shoehorning, confirmation bias, and all those other tricks the mind likes to play on us.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jul 31, 2010 3:08:16 GMT -5
There's future-telling predicting and then there's observance prediction. Everything you just described is observance, not future-telling.
If I spray a bug with bug killer, I can "predict" that it will die. or, I can just simply know that it's going to die because I sprayed it with a bug killing spray.
Your first prediction.. you may see a cat playing with it. You predict it'll fall. And it does. But you studied something that was happening.
The second one is a natural consequence of you typing the words and having clicking post.
The third one is your study of my character has let you know that I do believe in Tarot and thus would defend it's position. Once again, observation.
There's a difference between future-telling prediction and being able to discern that event B will happen because of action/situation A.
I don't mind your opinion on the situation, but those examples could have been better.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Jul 31, 2010 5:29:57 GMT -5
I'm gonna chime in with something worthwhile for a change: Predicting peoples' reaction to my last post would have been a better example, because it's not directly in your control & there are a multitude of events that could arise because of it. As it just so happens, it seems that the correct prediction was "jack shit."
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jul 31, 2010 13:57:13 GMT -5
I'm gonna chime in with something worthwhile for a change: Predicting peoples' reaction to my last post would have been a better example, because it's not directly in your control & there are a multitude of events that could arise because of it. As it just so happens, it seems that the correct prediction was "jack shit." Well, I thought it was clever...
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Post by calee022 on Jul 31, 2010 15:16:34 GMT -5
4. The Tarot Reader tells you the meanings of each card in the context of the order they came up in and how they feel might be relevant to the situation. Ultimately, however, YOU must interpret the cards and what they might mean. You're the one the reading is about, and ultimately, you have the end in what you think it means. This is how astrology works, too. You "interpret" the readings. It is easy to find any vague "reading" relevant to your particular situation.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jul 31, 2010 16:26:26 GMT -5
4. The Tarot Reader tells you the meanings of each card in the context of the order they came up in and how they feel might be relevant to the situation. Ultimately, however, YOU must interpret the cards and what they might mean. You're the one the reading is about, and ultimately, you have the end in what you think it means. This is how astrology works, too. You "interpret" the readings. It is easy to find any vague "reading" relevant to your particular situation. And where did I ask you to believe this?
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Post by Sigmaleph on Jul 31, 2010 16:34:02 GMT -5
There's future-telling predicting and then there's observance prediction. Everything you just described is observance, not future-telling. Why do what you call "future-telling" predictions have a lesser standard of specificity than what you refer to as "observance" predictions? My point was that Tarot prediction is horribly vague, and that comparing to other vague methods of prediction is deceptive, because you're ignoring that specific predictive methods exist. Well, in addition to my other point about how vague predictive methods are useless. How isn't Tarot the claim that you can gain some insight into event B because of situation A, situation A being the result of Tarot cards? So far, the only real distinction I can see between future-telling prediction and prediction based on observation is that one of them doesn't work.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jul 31, 2010 17:00:10 GMT -5
So. I never asked anyone to believe what I said. I was asked about the difference between scam artists and real tarot users. I explained the tarot process so as to illustrate it. I never once said that Tarot is the truth and you must all believe. I even admitted it may all be in my head.
So... why are people trying to change my beliefs? I understand what you're saying, believe me, but it's none of your business what I believe. There are some things you're just better off not pushing. You believe what you believe, I'll believe what I believe, let's focus on the other things, because quite frankly, it's not important.
I served my purpose in this thread, I'm done with it.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Jul 31, 2010 18:39:25 GMT -5
Okay wow I'm disappointed in the thread and its title...I was wanting a reading, dammit.
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Post by Thejebusfire on Jul 31, 2010 18:56:21 GMT -5
I was expecting an e-reading too.
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Post by worlder on Jul 31, 2010 19:30:12 GMT -5
So is it possible that if you draw a random set of cards and ask several different people to interpret them.
You can sort of see how they think.
Except for that one guy who wants to play poker with the 52 corresponding cards.
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Post by Sigmaleph on Jul 31, 2010 21:53:33 GMT -5
So. I never asked anyone to believe what I said. And I didn't ask you to believe what I said. I pointed out what I considered a flawed statement. I then asked you to clarify on a distinction you made which I felt was arbitrary. I don't see how any of those can only be a response to belief pushing. Speaking only for myself, because I think you're wrong about them, and generally assume people care whether their beliefs are true or not, particularly in this forum. Because if I said something, and someone thought I was mistaken, I'd like them to correct me on that, provided they could back that correction with reason and evidence. Of course you can believe whatever you want to believe. But that doesn't mean I can't say that I believe you're wrong.
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