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Post by erictheblue on Apr 14, 2009 6:54:56 GMT -5
I like to hang out on the official X-box foums for games I have played or am playing, including Assassin's Creed. Not long ago, a 13-year old came into the AC forum, asking for advice on how to convince his mother to let him have the game. (It is, as you can guess from the title of this thread, rated M.)
Several people told him that if his mother said no, he should listen to her and stop asking for the game. (I'm one of them.) But several others were saying things like "just hang out outside a GameStop and ask someone to buy the game for you" or "find someone who has the game and borrow it from them."
Am I off-base in thinking that if the kid's mother said no, he should just drop it? I see a lot of rants from people who hate playing M-rated multi-player games against immature kids, or getting annoyed with parents complaining about the games their kids are playing, even though the parents never bothered to monitor their kid's gaming habits. ("Oh it was horrid. Little Timmy is going around calling women 'ho's' like that horrid GTA.")
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Post by deliciousdemon on Apr 14, 2009 7:40:03 GMT -5
He should probably drop it.
But I played mature rated games as a kid and listened to parental advisory music, et cetera. Kids will often find a way especially if they are in the mindset that it being forbidden is half the fun. He also might appreciate the game. As a kid I really appreciated the gothic noir horror of Nocturne or the subtle sexuality of No One Lives Forever 2. Not all kid gamers are morons, I was not.
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Pwnzerfaust
New Member
Arbiter of all things arbitrary
Posts: 41
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Post by Pwnzerfaust on Apr 14, 2009 10:12:08 GMT -5
He should drop it, yes, though I don't agree with the restriction in the first place. Assassin's Creed really isn't all that gruesome. There's a bit of blood and a lot of violence, but people see that on TV all the time.
Besides, I grew up playing games like Doom and Hexen and Duke Nukem and Quake before I had even turned 8, and I turned out okay.
I think.
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Post by Bluefinger on Apr 14, 2009 10:31:07 GMT -5
I've played a whole load of games as I grew up, some of them being quite violent, such as the likes of Soldier of Fortune, etc. I managed just fine, and when playing on multiplayer, always played in as good a manner as I could.
However, looking back, I would say that if I did get game X for hypothetical son/daughter, I'd do so on the basis that I think they would be mature enough to handle said game. This would mean not spending too much time on it (playing in moderation), and not getting obsessed with it. Should they not be able to show the necessary maturity, then yeah, no game X. Why? Because ultimately, it would be also my responsibility to make sure they don't get into trouble, etc.
Also, if it is a game that I play myself and have evaluated and said offspring wish to try it, then I'd encourage them to do so when I'm also playing. Get social whilst still gaming, etc. Plus, family time.
Overall, if the kid is whining about it, most likely, he shouldn't have it. I mean, there are other games beside Assassin's Creed out there, so it isn't like it is the end of the world should he not play it. Besides, if he was really determined to get the game, then he'd have found a way already and not be whining on an internet forum.
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Post by schizophonic on Apr 14, 2009 10:48:25 GMT -5
He should drop it, yes, though I don't agree with the restriction in the first place. Assassin's Creed really isn't all that gruesome. There's a bit of blood and a lot of violence, but people see that on TV all the time. Besides, I grew up playing games like Doom and Hexen and Duke Nukem and Quake before I had even turned 8, and I turned out okay. I think. I once drove home successfully after a serious bender. Just because I didn't die doesn't mean we should take drunk driving laws off the books. Ratings are non-binding and only limited because the majority of retailers have made their own policies limiting sales at the demands of parents. Plenty of parents don't want their kids playing these games, which is why the 17+ policy is in place in so many retailers. If the kid wants it, theoretically, he has to get a parent to do it. In reality, it doesn't quite work that way, but I hardly see why this restriction is a bad thing. Then again, my Mom bought me Doom knowing that it was a seriously gory game for its time, because she knew I wasn't going to go shoot shit up because of some retarded pixelated fun.
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Pwnzerfaust
New Member
Arbiter of all things arbitrary
Posts: 41
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Post by Pwnzerfaust on Apr 14, 2009 15:05:51 GMT -5
I didn't mean in general. I meant in specific for Assassin's Creed. Sorry if I worded it wrong. I don't see how AC got M rating, really. T rating seems more appropriate.
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Post by antichrist on Apr 14, 2009 15:24:30 GMT -5
Well I had a long discussion with my sister when her kids brought over GTA. After discussing the ratings with her and what they meant, she decided that M was banned, T would be analyzed and G was okay.
It's her family, her decision. Even if this kid gets someone to buy it for him, his mother will probably get pissed off and throw it out.
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Post by schizophonic on Apr 14, 2009 16:15:01 GMT -5
I didn't mean in general. I meant in specific for Assassin's Creed. Sorry if I worded it wrong. I don't see how AC got M rating, really. T rating seems more appropriate. Ah. My bad. I've never played AC, so I don't know about that one specifically.
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Post by szaleniec on Apr 14, 2009 23:15:18 GMT -5
I didn't mean in general. I meant in specific for Assassin's Creed. Sorry if I worded it wrong. I don't see how AC got M rating, really. T rating seems more appropriate. For what it's worth it's a 15 this side of the pond. We use the same rating system for games as we do for films, though not all games are rated; 15 means not for sale to anyone under 15 (this is legally binding) and content-wise means something that's adult-oriented but doesn't have anything too objectionable in it. A mature 13-year-old playing a 15-rated game? No problem as far as I'm concerned, and no problem as far as my parents were concerned back when I was that age. As a footnote, I'm not entirely sure I trust your rating system when it does things like rating a game M for a single scene that wouldn't have raised the slightest comment had it appeared in any other medium.* I'm not saying that ours is perfect, but still. * Not necessarily referring to Assassin's Creed, which I haven't played.
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Post by schizophonic on Apr 14, 2009 23:51:06 GMT -5
As a footnote, I'm not entirely sure I trust your rating system when it does things like rating a game M for a single scene that wouldn't have raised the slightest comment had it appeared in any other medium.* I'm not saying that ours is perfect, but still. Video games are currently the whipping boy, and I don't like it myself. I think I'm most bothered, however, by the fact that the ESRB doesn't actually have to play the game to rate it. I dislike the "rate it M if there's any doubt," And dislike how uneven it seems to be, but the fact that they don't actually completely review the comment is bad for all sides. On the one hand, they don't get the context of any violence, sex and language. On the other, parents don't get accurate guidelines. And then there's the spread of stupid. You mention a single scene that would have raised no criticism in other media. Have you played Mass Effect? They played it up as a virtual rape simulator, and that you could have multiple, customised sex partners, when the only sex scene in the game is like fifteen seconds long and shows less than what you can see on broadcast/network TV in this country. There's two seconds of "alien sideboob," and the implication that one character goes down on another. Even if you go the "lesbian" route with the alien character, it's incredibly tame, and you can see more gay action daily on TV.
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Post by HarleyThomas1002 on Apr 15, 2009 0:19:19 GMT -5
I've played very few M rated games and the ones I have weren't that bad. Syphon Filter 2, 3 and The Omega Strain were all M rated and the worst thing about it was a little blood. There was a bit more in Omega Strain but that's about it.
San Andreas by far had the most blood and gore in it. Not sure about Liberty City Stories as I haven't played it yet even though I've owned it for over a year.
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Post by silencesoloud8603 on Apr 15, 2009 0:49:00 GMT -5
I definitely think the ESRB is fucked up in terms of rating relatively tame games M, but I don't know enough about the 13 year old in question or his mom to really have an opinion on whether or not he's justified in his plans to circumvent her refusal to buy him the game. I know I bought plenty of games, movies, music, etc. behind my parents' backs when I was younger, but then again my dad is a fundie that was "concerned" about P.O.D. and banned Linkin Park before giving up on trying to control my music and my mom used to be almost as bad as he is. If his mom is one of those brainwashed "omg he'll become a murderer" cunts or a fundie or something I don't really think any less of him but if she's saner than that and just thinks he's too young for the violence I think he should listen to her, even if the violence is much too mild to merit an M rating. Besides, he could probably get the game anyway. I know I bought several M rated games, stickered CDs, and R-rated movies before I was 17 and only got carded for one game when my little brother was present.
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Post by szaleniec on Apr 15, 2009 2:35:42 GMT -5
And then there's the spread of stupid. You mention a single scene that would have raised no criticism in other media. Have you played Mass Effect? It was the exact game I had in mind when I typed that. Not only was the scene in question quite non-graphic (as well as about a minute in a 40-hour game and completely optional) it actually makes a lot more sense in context than the vast majority of sex scenes out there. Had this been any other media then nobody would have given it a second thought.
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Post by doomie 22 on Apr 15, 2009 21:37:29 GMT -5
Just like it's the parent's responsibility to decide what movies and TV shows their kids can watch, it's the parents responsibility to decide what video games their kids are mature enough to handle. Sure, some parents may use that right to keep their kids culturally retarded; but how do you plan to pick those parents out in a crowd? If you can't trust a parent/guardian to know what their own child can and cannot handle, who can you trust? It may not be a perfect system, but if the worst that happens is some poor kid doesn't get to play Halo or watch The Matrix until he turns 17, I'd say it could be worse.
Also, all the people who told the kid to go around his mother's decision are making the total censorship crowd right. If there are ways around the rating system then the rating system can't be trusted, which is exactly what people like Jack Thompson are saying.
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Post by skyfire on Apr 16, 2009 8:50:39 GMT -5
If the parents have given their refusal, then short of actually convincing the parents to change their mind there isn't much that the kid can do w/o making matters worse.
And as mentioned above, it's all about how mature a person is and how much their parents trust them.
In my case, I'd played all four eps of Doom 1, Doom 2, Crusader: No Remorse, parts of a few Wolfenstein games (via a demo disk), and a demo of Corridor 7 all before I'd gotten into high school; the first two during 5th grade in fact. I also had all four Doom novels, and what they lacked in violent content they more than made up for by having the female lead cater to several fetishes above and beyond the usual "hot female sidekick" bit (exhibitionism, stripper outfit, urination, etc.).
Difference is, I understood that at the end of the day, they were all works of fiction.
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