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Post by nathanthewise on Jun 15, 2011 15:56:58 GMT -5
Well, it would if the side that won, lost, because the weather conditions that allowed them to win didn't occur. Big one... had the storm not crashed the Spanish Armada into Ireland repeatedly... ...The Spanish Armada would've been able to put up a far better fight, possibly to the point of defeating the English navy. Nevertheless, the battle itself would still be either won or lost by the fighting done by both sides. Even with the storm destroying the better portion of the Spanish Armada and damaging the rest, the battle was not decided until the English successfully fought off what remaining forces the Spanish still had. De-lurking here because I have to point out that the storm happened after the Armada had been effectively defeated. The Armada's job was to convey the Duke of Parma's army (in Belgium) to England. When the fleet rocked up off the coast of the low countries, Parma wasn't there, couldn't get there, had no hope of getting there, on account of the Dutch controlled all the waterways between him and the fleet. At that point Effingham sent fireships in that scattered the Spanish fleet and sent them sailing before the wind up the North Sea, no longer a danger to England or anyone else. And then came the storm. |
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Post by ltfred on Jun 15, 2011 17:39:22 GMT -5
Please go and suck Julia Gillards cock and get it out of your system already? What is this I don't even? Then it's the general's fault, not the factors. |
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Post by scotsgit on Jun 16, 2011 10:42:42 GMT -5
My 2nd thought was " what does a guy have to do to get the damn Victoria Cross if THIS doesn't qualify?" okay then - if anyone knows - speak up please... Honestly? Usually you have to die. (Non-snarky response: you must have your act of valor verified by at least three reliable and reputable direct witnesses. And you usually have to die.) In my entire service in the BAF I only saw two VCs, and they were both on coffins. There was one given to a soldier who fought in Iraq: He has the rare advantage of still being alive but has (if I recall correctly) been discharged due to injuries received. As to why the Gurkha didn't get a VC - dear knows. |
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Post by scotsgit on Jun 16, 2011 10:47:27 GMT -5
I've met other Aussies who essentially take the same position on these things. I've also met Americans who swear they won WWI and WWII pretty much all on their own, and who seem entirely unaware of the role played by the French in the American Revolution. I've met Russians who insist Russia single handedly defeated Hitler, Englishmen who say the same thing, and Italians who swear that they defeated Mussolini. I've met Chinese who insist they won the Korean Conflict, Cubans who swear they were the deciding factor in the Spanish American War, and Texans who stubbornly assert that the Alamo was a victory. People will slant it to themselves regardless of actual fact. I've actally encountered Japanese people who insist that they won their war of self defence against Western Imperialism. Yes, thats the Second World War I'm talking about. Ye jest, surely? |
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Post by lighthorseman on Jun 16, 2011 11:45:11 GMT -5
I've actally encountered Japanese people who insist that they won their war of self defence against Western Imperialism. Yes, thats the Second World War I'm talking about. Ye jest, surely? Nope. |
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Post by kristine on Jun 16, 2011 23:41:03 GMT -5
Honestly? Usually you have to die. (Non-snarky response: you must have your act of valor verified by at least three reliable and reputable direct witnesses. And you usually have to die.) In my entire service in the BAF I only saw two VCs, and they were both on coffins. There was one given to a soldier who fought in Iraq: He has the rare advantage of still being alive but has (if I recall correctly) been discharged due to injuries received. As to why the Gurkha didn't get a VC - dear knows. okay - Thank you both. I suppose that if there were no witnesses to expound on his bravery and he is still in one piece he only gets 2nd prize. - 1st is for those who save someone besides themselves and (literally) give a pound of flesh in battle. still seems a bit unfair, like being penalized for being good at your job, but I guess I understand. |
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Post by scotsgit on Jun 17, 2011 4:23:50 GMT -5
There was one given to a soldier who fought in Iraq: He has the rare advantage of still being alive but has (if I recall correctly) been discharged due to injuries received. As to why the Gurkha didn't get a VC - dear knows. okay - Thank you both. I suppose that if there were no witnesses to expound on his bravery and he is still in one piece he only gets 2nd prize. - 1st is for those who save someone besides themselves and (literally) give a pound of flesh in battle. still seems a bit unfair, like being penalized for being good at your job, but I guess I understand. One of the sad things about war is that there millions of untold stories of bravery, sacrifice and honour which never get told: This soldier did get some recognition, it's not unknown for many not to get anything. |
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Post by ltfred on Jun 17, 2011 5:59:38 GMT -5
okay - Thank you both. I suppose that if there were no witnesses to expound on his bravery and he is still in one piece he only gets 2nd prize. - 1st is for those who save someone besides themselves and (literally) give a pound of flesh in battle. still seems a bit unfair, like being penalized for being good at your job, but I guess I understand. One of the sad things about war is that there millions of untold stories of bravery, sacrifice and honour which never get told: This soldier did get some recognition, it's not unknown for many not to get anything. On the flip side, there are millions of untold stories of horror and terror. /pessimistic. |
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Post by kristine on Jun 17, 2011 8:51:12 GMT -5
okay - Thank you both. I suppose that if there were no witnesses to expound on his bravery and he is still in one piece he only gets 2nd prize. - 1st is for those who save someone besides themselves and (literally) give a pound of flesh in battle. still seems a bit unfair, like being penalized for being good at your job, but I guess I understand. One of the sad things about war is that there millions of untold stories of bravery, sacrifice and honour which never get told: This soldier did get some recognition, it's not unknown for many not to get anything. I'm sure they get told by somebody - just don't make it into the public media. |
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Post by scotsgit on Jun 20, 2011 7:21:38 GMT -5
One of the sad things about war is that there millions of untold stories of bravery, sacrifice and honour which never get told: This soldier did get some recognition, it's not unknown for many not to get anything. I'm sure they get told by somebody - just don't make it into the public media. Not always - David Niven (the actor) fought in World War Two and after the war stood in the cemetry at Normandy and said "Well David, here's 3000 reasons to keep your mouth shut". |
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Post by malicious_bloke on Jun 21, 2011 16:40:27 GMT -5
<3 Gurkhas.
They just happen to be the perfect soldier. Meet them in person and they are upright, friendly, fantastic people (at least the ones I've met have been), then you drop them into a battle and OMFG.
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Post by lighthorseman on Jun 21, 2011 20:05:47 GMT -5
<3 Gurkhas. They just happen to be the perfect soldier. Meet them in person and they are upright, friendly, fantastic people (at least the ones I've met have been), then you drop them into a battle and OMFG. Perfect? Pffft, they aren't even armoured! |
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Post by scotsgit on Jun 22, 2011 6:49:05 GMT -5
<3 Gurkhas. They just happen to be the perfect soldier. Meet them in person and they are upright, friendly, fantastic people (at least the ones I've met have been), then you drop them into a battle and OMFG. A word of advice though: If you meet one, never, ever touch them. Even if you shake hands, blow on your hands (and let them see you do it) afterwards. It's one of their beserk buttons if you don't. |
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Post by ltfred on Jun 22, 2011 7:25:57 GMT -5
<3 Gurkhas. They just happen to be the perfect soldier. Meet them in person and they are upright, friendly, fantastic people (at least the ones I've met have been), then you drop them into a battle and OMFG. A word of advice though: If you meet one, never, ever touch them. Even if you shake hands, blow on your hands (and let them see you do it) afterwards. It's one of their beserk buttons if you don't. How come? Why does it make them angry? |
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