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Post by MaybeNever on Jul 1, 2011 19:05:06 GMT -5
Yeah, and I hear it's full of foreigners.
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Post by scotsgit on Jul 1, 2011 19:09:13 GMT -5
Yeah, and I hear it's full of foreigners. Did you know that we didn't support the American Revolution? I was as amazed as you are! And, even worse, we don't stockpile firearms in our houses? I know, I know, I live in a nazicommielib Gulag. |
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Post by ltfred on Jul 1, 2011 19:11:21 GMT -5
;D Quiet, you! Actually, it's "Live Free Or Die." And that is why we don't have income taxes, sales taxes, helmet laws, seatbelt laws, or common sense. Well, the lack of helmet or seat-belt laws, I can support (when you're only putting your own life at risk, the law should step in rarely, if at all). Lack of income taxes, ditto (less taxation of a thing tends to encourage the growth of it). You have to weigh up the costs and benefits. Not wearing a seatbelt is hardly a vital right, but thousands of people not being killed is a pretty good benefit. Before laws against a failure to wear seatbelts, thousands of people were too stupid or ignorant to wear belts, and many died. Prohibiting that behaviour significantly changed the culture and saved numerous lives. Government should not assume that people are rational. Perhaps they are- but perhaps they're just idiots. Idiocy is not a right. |
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Post by Amaranth on Jul 1, 2011 19:50:26 GMT -5
Welcome to New Hampshire, where we take our state motto literally. You mean "We're not 69ing Vermont?" >.> What? Well, the lack of helmet or seat-belt laws, I can support (when you're only putting your own life at risk, the law should step in rarely, if at all). Lack of income taxes, ditto (less taxation of a thing tends to encourage the growth of it). Lack of seatbelt laws only hurt you. And, if you're the driver, they can hurt anyone else in the vehicle when you can no longer control it. And, if you're in the front seat, they can hurt someone else if you become a missile and launch through the windshield and injure someone who was wearing a seatbelt. So it really isn't just putting yourself at risk. Lack of taxation: Well, New Hampshire's in a pretty shite state over that, so it seems like a good example of the theory being disproven (or at least, damaged) by reality. Besides, they usually hammer you in other areas. I think some of the best evidence against libertarians is what happens when they get their way. |
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Post by Smurfette Principle on Jul 1, 2011 21:15:01 GMT -5
We have super high property taxes to make up for it, and our schools are shit unless they're big fancy private schools.
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Post by Amaranth on Jul 1, 2011 22:40:10 GMT -5
We have super high property taxes to make up for it, and our schools are shit unless they're big fancy private schools. And some areas whack you in utilities, too. I don't know about the whole state, but since I live right across the bridge from Hinsdale and West Chesterfield, I'm familiar with how bad some of my former coworkers et hosed. |
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Post by Amaranth on Jul 1, 2011 22:40:45 GMT -5
Probably because of socialism. Well, according to US libertarians, I do live in a socialist country.... According to US libertarians, so do I. And I live in the US. |
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Post by Rat Of Steel on Jul 1, 2011 23:01:20 GMT -5
According to US libertarians, so do I. And I live in the US. Not all U.S. libertarians. *nods at himself* This country, for the most part, wouldn't know actual socialism if it bit them on the backside, yet too many people complain about socialism endlessly.  |
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Post by ltfred on Jul 1, 2011 23:06:16 GMT -5
According to US libertarians, so do I. And I live in the US. Not all U.S. libertarians. *nods at himself* This country, for the most part, wouldn't know actual socialism if it bit them on the backside, yet too many people complain about socialism endlessly. It's a convenient synonym for 'bad' or 'something I don't agree with'. |
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Post by Rat Of Steel on Jul 1, 2011 23:09:23 GMT -5
Not all U.S. libertarians. *nods at himself* This country, for the most part, wouldn't know actual socialism if it bit them on the backside, yet too many people complain about socialism endlessly. It's a convenient synonym for 'bad' or 'something I don't agree with'. So I've gathered. I've filed it next to "activist judge(s)" "special rights" and other such terms in my mental Fundie-to-English dictionary. |
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Post by largeham on Jul 2, 2011 0:38:51 GMT -5
;D Quiet, you! Actually, it's "Live Free Or Die." And that is why we don't have income taxes, sales taxes, helmet laws, seatbelt laws, or common sense. Well, the lack of helmet or seat-belt laws, I can support (when you're only putting your own life at risk, the law should step in rarely, if at all). Lack of income taxes, ditto (less taxation of a thing tends to encourage the growth of it). No sales tax....ehh, not so much (not only do governments need at least some tax revenue, but taxes on the purchase of things other than, say, basic food staples, would encourage consumers to spend more wisely). Lack of common sense is, of course, all kinds of wrong; the real sticking point is that even reasonable people disagree regularly concerning just what constitutes common sense regarding law-making. I don't see how you can support a sales tax but not income tax. Sales taxes are regressive and just hurt the poor more than the rich, a progressive income tax is the way to go. Increasing sales taxes just widens the gap between rich and poor. As for seat belts, I know that many libertarians like to claim that society is bullshit, every man is an island, etc, but that isn't true. Even if you do something that will only hurt you physically, your actions still have wider ramifications and will hurt others psychologically. |
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Post by Napoleon the Clown on Jul 2, 2011 2:15:26 GMT -5
;D Quiet, you! Actually, it's "Live Free Or Die." And that is why we don't have income taxes, sales taxes, helmet laws, seatbelt laws, or common sense. Well, the lack of helmet or seat-belt laws, I can support (when you're only putting your own life at risk, the law should step in rarely, if at all). Lack of income taxes, ditto (less taxation of a thing tends to encourage the growth of it). Google pictures of what it looks like when an unprotected skull meets Mr. Asphalt at 40 mph. Now Google videos of what a body does in a bad wreck. Hint: The first is messy as hell and seeing some dumbfuck's brains spattered all over the interstate sure as shit affects Innocent Little Timmy. As to Fuckhead McFreedom and his lack of seatbelt... Well, even if he stays in the vehicle he's gonna bounce around a lot, potentially hurting other occupants and making a bigger mess for the EMTs that need to try and save him. And a bigger headache for the mortician, what with people preferring open casket funerals. No man is an island. |
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Jul 2, 2011 3:50:24 GMT -5
Well, the lack of helmet or seat-belt laws, I can support (when you're only putting your own life at risk, the law should step in rarely, if at all). Not wearing a seatbelt can turn your body into a projectile (lovely image there), which can harm others in and outside the vehicle. Helmet laws are often in place primarily to protect children, being that they're too young to appreciate the danger, and there are too many parents out there who don't give a shit about their child's safety. Plus, it's not like wearing a seatbelt or helmet is a huge ordeal, or has a dramatic impact on your lifestyle. When making safety laws, one needs to weigh the consequences of losing the freedom to choose against the consequences of inadequate safety/the level of risk, and in this case, I'd say that safety/risk wins by a long shot. |
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Post by malicious_bloke on Jul 2, 2011 6:24:30 GMT -5
Google pictures of what it looks like when an unprotected skull meets Mr. Asphalt at 40 mph. Moron without a seatbelt getting mashed face-first into the road basically just requires a shovel and/or bodybag to clean up. In that instance he's only really harming himself (creating a bit of extra work for people who are employed to do that work doesn't count as "harm"). Now, if Mr Moron's unseatbelted body becomes a projectile upon impact and cannons into someone else they could likely end up killing the other party aswell as themselves. Therefore, seatbelt laws good. |
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Post by Amaranth on Jul 2, 2011 7:06:48 GMT -5
Not all U.S. libertarians. *nods at himself* Hint: "libertarians" can refer to the general body instead of each and every member. "Libertarian" has become popular in conservative lexicon because it has become more or less synonymous with "sociopath." We can spend pages arguing what a "True Libertarian" is, and believe me, we've seen threads like that, but really, it's not going to change anything. You can argue each and every time that you're "different," though that also won't change anything. Though since New Hampshire was : ibertarian before it was cool," I'd say it's a pretty good demonstration of what really happens: poor education and the personal freedom to turn yourself into a missile. Actually, I kind of wonder if a physics class or two might remedy the seatbelt laws. |
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