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Post by HarleyThomas1002 on Jul 7, 2011 1:40:43 GMT -5
Now he's brought back into history. Because he's gay.
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Post by MaybeNever on Jul 7, 2011 1:42:35 GMT -5
While I appreciate the sentiment with this, I really have to ask why? Why should I care if Alan Turning was gay? I personally dont care if he had sexual relations with his pet goat, what should be taught is his contributions to society. There is really no need to mention anyone's sexuality in history. The only issue I would have is if people like Alan Turning were specifically removed from history curriculum because he was gay. I'd agree with you, but the best way to make it clear that gays are just people is to point out that these people who did great things happened to be gay. Maybe it will be a train wreck and California will ruin it, but if this is handled well it could make kids realize that gay folks are totally indistinguishable from humans and are therefore an invisible threat that must be destroyed with an iron fist people of value too.
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Post by lighthorseman on Jul 7, 2011 1:47:43 GMT -5
I think historical figures' sexuality is probably fairly irrelevent to what makes them notable. That said, given that as a society we generally agree that we need to encourage acceptance and tolerance of homosexuals, having a history component highlighting homosexual figures' achievements is probably worthwhile. My only comment is that it needs to be handled in a "People who happen to be homosexual have made numerous lasting contributions", rather than a "here is a list of homosexuals who happen to be historically important" way.
I'd also suggest that a direct examination of historical treatment of homosexuals, both by cultures that accept and revile homosexuals, would probably be beneficial too.
ETA: Alan Turing, while being a fascinating person in his own right, I wouldn't have thought was really inherently important to an over all high school history class. I'd be careful about going out of one's way to include mentions of people because they were homosexual, rather than because they are relevent to the subject being studied.
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Post by Runa on Jul 7, 2011 2:13:14 GMT -5
Or maybe it could give gay kids someone to aspire to and admire, knowing that gay people are talented too?
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Post by lighthorseman on Jul 7, 2011 2:21:08 GMT -5
Or maybe it could give gay kids someone to aspire to and admire, knowing that gay people are talented too? I think its a shame we can't just show kids that PEOPLE are talented, and that they can aspire to be like any other person they admire. But if thats what it takes...
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Jul 7, 2011 2:30:04 GMT -5
LHM, I think it's safe to say that kids who fall outside of the 'norm' like to have someone similar to them to whom they can look for inspiration, especially when kids who fall outside of said 'norm' tend to be treated like something less than, well, the 'norm'.
I mean, I'm white, so I can't speak to personal connection as far as Hispanic or black history, but when I started finding out about what females have contributed to society alongside their male counterparts, I started to realize that it doesn't matter if you have a dick or not.
Similarly, when I found out that queer folk have gone down in history as great inventors and leaders and artists and scientists, it made me feel just the teeniest bit better about my 'affliction' (the gravely named likesboobiesitis; it's fatal if left untreated, as sufferers tend to snap and run off to suffocate in the nearest pair of mammaries available).
So I'm just coming at it from that viewpoint. Yes, I'd LOVE if everyone could ignore sex, skin color, gender, orientation, eye color, and whatever the hell else, but that's not the world we live in, and if this will help 'normalize' homosexuality in the minds of the following generations, more power to it.
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Post by Runa on Jul 7, 2011 2:30:05 GMT -5
Or maybe it could give gay kids someone to aspire to and admire, knowing that gay people are talented too? I think its a shame we can't just show kids that PEOPLE are talented, and that they can aspire to be like any other person they admire. But if thats what it takes... The problem is that we need to make this sort of thing happen so that it eventually becomes 'normal'. It's why there are things like Black History Month, International Women's Day, etc. Because the 'social norm' is still a WASP.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Jul 7, 2011 2:32:00 GMT -5
Don't forget, Runa-- a heterosexual WASP. At least that's how it is in the Southern US, I dunno about Australia.
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Post by Runa on Jul 7, 2011 2:33:32 GMT -5
Don't forget, Runa-- a heterosexual WASP. At least that's how it is in the Southern US, I dunno about Australia. Yeah, pretty much Down Under too. *sigh*
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Post by lighthorseman on Jul 7, 2011 2:39:20 GMT -5
I get it. Just saying its a shame its necessary. If it helps, then its worthwhile.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Jul 7, 2011 2:47:11 GMT -5
I get it. Just saying its a shame its necessary. If it helps, then its worthwhile. Ah, okay...yeah, it's a real shame. Here's hoping one day it won't be needed...
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Post by ltfred on Jul 7, 2011 20:23:23 GMT -5
Gay people have been treated differently than everyone else by society. They history should, therefore, be taught independently. That different treatment is important, just as important as the different treatment of African-Americans or Jews- more so, because mistreatment of Jews is no longer acceptable.
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Post by sylvana on Jul 8, 2011 0:30:55 GMT -5
I'd also suggest that a direct examination of historical treatment of homosexuals, both by cultures that accept and revile homosexuals, would probably be beneficial too. I agree that this would actually be a worthwhile thing for students to learn as well as black rights and a historical and current look at cultures and their approach to women's rights. People and especially children need to learn that regardless of sex, orientation or skin colour we are really all in this together and tolerance breeds the best results. Also what lighthorseman said, if it helps it is worthwhile.
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Post by Amaranth on Jul 8, 2011 11:04:32 GMT -5
While I appreciate the sentiment with this, I really have to ask why? Why should I care if Alan Turning was gay? I personally dont care if he had sexual relations with his pet goat, what should be taught is his contributions to society. There is really no need to mention anyone's sexuality in history. The only issue I would have is if people like Alan Turning were specifically removed from history curriculum because he was gay. Do you feel the same about mentioning people of colour? I mean, deep down, Martin Luther King was just a guy. Sexuality has a dynamic in modern (and even not-so-modern) society and history and culture impacts the way it is viewed. Affirmatively confirming gays existed and prvoided contributions to society is especially positive, if one only goes so far as to look at the Michelle Bachmann thread. While the superficial argument seems sound, it has the effect of enabling homophobia. Why should you care if Alan Turing was gay? A good number of those gay teens who kill themselves do so because they feel like they are alone, aberrations, freaks of nature. So why should you care? Basic human empathy, perhaps.
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Post by Amaranth on Jul 8, 2011 11:05:13 GMT -5
Or maybe it could give gay kids someone to aspire to and admire, knowing that gay people are talented too? Fuck that. Homos need to learn some proper shame!
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