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Post by cestlefun17 on Jul 31, 2011 16:07:17 GMT -5
While the bill covers inappropriate sexual conduct as well, Facebook friending is not unprofessional merely because it could possibly lead to sexual behavior. See sandman's posts: he explains it very cogently.
Not to sound condescending, but perhaps you have to be a teacher to really understand this? I don't know: to me this is the most reasonable thing in the world.
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Post by ironbite on Jul 31, 2011 16:44:44 GMT -5
You can say "not to sound condescending" you you are.
Ironbite-just fyi.
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Post by cestlefun17 on Jul 31, 2011 16:54:00 GMT -5
Well so be it then. The two teachers on this thread get it.
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Post by Vene on Jul 31, 2011 17:20:24 GMT -5
Vene...please think things over twice before you criticize people. The law does not make teacher/student Facebook friendships illegal. It mandates that each school district draw up a policy that includes a number of provisions, one of these being to forbid this activity. The law is only broken if a school district does not come up with such a policy. If you are a teacher who friends a student, you are in violation of your school district's policy (which was made because of state mandate), not in violation of any state law. States do this all the time, provide mandates (through laws) that school districts must adopt. What strange compartmentalization. |
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Post by cestlefun17 on Jul 31, 2011 17:30:49 GMT -5
What does that even mean?
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jul 31, 2011 21:23:48 GMT -5
Two reasons. Firstly, because the vast majority of teenagers are not emotionally capable of the compartmentalization necessary for such a dual-status relationship. Hell, most adults aren't capable of it. Well you don't learn by not doing. |
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Post by the sandman on Jul 31, 2011 22:02:20 GMT -5
Two reasons. Firstly, because the vast majority of teenagers are not emotionally capable of the compartmentalization necessary for such a dual-status relationship. Hell, most adults aren't capable of it. Well you don't learn by not doing. You don't seem to understand. As a teacher, or really any professional working with children or teens, it is utterly imperative that you maintain a proper, professional, appropriate teacher/student dynamic. That means that you do not cultivate personal friendships with your students. You just don't. Any teacher that does does not last long in the profession. You absolutely care about your students. You don't go into teaching if you don't have a deep and pervasive compassion for your students. (You certainly don't go into it for the *ahem* easy job and big fat paycheck.....) But you do not cultivate personal friendships with them. At the secondary level, a personal friendship with a student that goes beyond the teacher/student dynamic utterly destroys the teachers ability to efficiently manage the students education. You might think it doesn't looking at it from the point of view of the student, but it absolutely does, and any teacher that doesn't see it needs to be promptly removed from the classroom. I have seen this kind of thing blow up in a teachers face over and over and over again. And it gets even worse if its a cross-gender (or same gender, in the case of a homosexual student) friendship. You risk emotional complications and consequences that almost always play out very, very publicly, and THAT never ends well. Hell. it often ends with dismissal or prosecution, even if nothing ever happened. Teaching is, like politics, one of the few professions in the world where it doesn't matter if you actually did anything or not, merely the accusation of wrong-doing will end your career, even if you are vindicated as innocent. The reality is meaningless; only the perception matters. One of the first things I teach my student-teachers (and I've had dozens) is that if you place yourself in a position where you can be accused of inappropriate behavior, eventually you will be, even if you never do anything inappropriate. You never meet with a student alone in your room, or outside of school grounds, or anything like that. It is begging to be fired. At the primary level, pursuing an actual, personal friendship with one of your students is so wildly and obviously inappropriate that there is no need to even debate it. Hell, I wouldn't just call it "inappropriate," I would call it "creepy." In every interaction with a student, the teacher must always maintain a proper perspective in the relationship. They are not equals, and can never be equals as long as the student remains a student in the teachers environment. This is simply a professional standard that any teacher who is suited for the job understands and maintains. You may not agree with it as a student, you may think it unfair or cold or restrictive, but that's the way it is, and it's not going to change anytime soon. Nor should it. It basically comes down to this: any primary or secondary teacher that cultivates personal friendships with their students outside or beyond an appropriate teacher/student dynamic should be immediately terminated from their position. They are emotionally entirely unsuited for the profession. |
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Post by Shane for Wax on Aug 1, 2011 1:22:46 GMT -5
1) The law doesn't make the difference between secondary and post-secondary students from what I can see.
2) What about families? I heard cestle say 'whoop de freaking doo' that an uncle and a nephew can't be friends on facebook. Uhm... Okie dokie. So. You want them to not form an even greater bond thru social media.
3) It says former students as well. How is this to be interpreted? I don't think I saw anything by anyone about this. I only saw that the judges would interpret it a certain way. What if they don't? What if 25 year old Jacob friends his former Math teacher who is still teaching at the old school?
4) How is this going to policed without an invasion of privacy on the part of a legal adult (the teacher)?
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Post by Shane for Wax on Aug 1, 2011 1:25:00 GMT -5
While the bill covers inappropriate sexual conduct as well, Facebook friending is not unprofessional merely because it could possibly lead to sexual behavior. See sandman's posts: he explains it very cogently. Not to sound condescending, but perhaps you have to be a teacher to really understand this? I don't know: to me this is the most reasonable thing in the world. Saying 'not to sound condescending' is the same as 'no offense' then saying an offensive statement. It doesn't cover your ass in any way, shape, or form. Even if you think it does. No offense. |
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Post by cestlefun17 on Aug 1, 2011 7:31:32 GMT -5
Here is the relevant portion of the bill again:
1. It says "school district." School districts do not encompass colleges and universities, unless Missouri has a wildly different school system from the rest of the country.
2. If the aunt and nephew are also student/teacher, then the aunt at least lives within commuting distance of the nephew. It's not like she would live on the other side of the country. People made bonds before social networking was invented. They'll be able to spend all the time in person that they want. The line would just be too blurry: can students friend teachers if they're cousins? family friends? etc. etc. It's not worth it over something so trivial.
3. I agree. This is the one thing that could be clarified. Hopefully the school districts will clarify it when they re-write their policies.
4. If you put something up on the Internet for everyone to see, it isn't private. I guess you can hide the fact that you're friends from everyone else through privacy settings and may even be able to get away with it. But if you have to go to lengths to hide the nature of your relationship with a student, you should probably reconsider the relationship you're having with that student. I'm sure the risk of being caught will also be a deterrent. No one would bother risking getting in trouble over something so trivial.
Also, word gets around fast. All it takes is you to friend one student, then that student goes around saying how Mr. Cestlefun17 friended him on Facebook, then everybody knows and sends you friend requests.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Aug 1, 2011 14:02:53 GMT -5
No but I do know that family use Facebook to coordinate things rather than texting or calling everyone. Family reunions and the such like.
I just really don't think this needs to be a law. I can see what they are, at the heart, trying to do but still. Kinda silly.
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Post by cestlefun17 on Aug 1, 2011 14:56:35 GMT -5
It isn't really a law in the sense it does not make it illegal for a teacher to Facebook-friend a student. It is a state mandate that requires all school districts to update their professional standards of conduct policies to take this behavior into account.
Each school district will decide its own penalties for breaking this standard. I'm sure first violations will typically be a verbal warning (or at most a written warning) by the principal.
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