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Post by Shane for Wax on Aug 22, 2011 19:04:05 GMT -5
I did say I recognized they made a mistake etc., but I also said that the reason I was a little upset is that it was as an afterthought that people said they should be able to get released. The main part of the posts I saw were 'why the hell would you go there in the first place? They knew what they were getting into. idiots. ...But I do hope that something can be done'
If things had been worded differently then I would have been fine.
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Post by discoberry on Aug 22, 2011 19:07:47 GMT -5
I'll add my voice to the unpopular side. Ever since this story broke the non-stop replay in my head has been 'WHY DID THEY GO THERE IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE??' They willingly, knowingly went into a warzone to go hiking. It was a resoundingly and unfathomably stupid thing to do. It's like someone in the 1940s deciding to go hiking on Mount Fuji. This can be settled tonight on the Travel Channel...Anthony Bourdain's show is in Kurdistan. |
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Post by cestlefun17 on Aug 22, 2011 20:27:31 GMT -5
Yup and look at the intense training he and his crew went through, and they had more armed guards than crew members.
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Post by discoberry on Aug 22, 2011 20:36:14 GMT -5
Yup and look at the intense training he and his crew went through, and they had more armed guards than crew members. Nobody has shot at them...yet. Also, they stated that Coalition solider stats for the region are zero dead and zero wounded in that area sine 2003. The soldiers aren't even in flack jackets. |
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Post by cestlefun17 on Aug 22, 2011 21:11:22 GMT -5
Still, they knew they weren't taking a trip to Ireland. They did the responsible thing and took reasonable precautions to ensure their safety.
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Post by Kit Walker on Aug 23, 2011 8:45:00 GMT -5
There is some victim blaming going on for sure. I totaled the family mini-van a few years back. Made a left turn when I should not have, a guy hit me right on the passenger side. My little sister (15 at the time) was in the passenger seat at the time, scared the hell out of her and I worry it put her off of getting her driver's license (she's 18 now and still doesn't have one). It was until very recently, nearly three years later, that I could be remotely comfortable driving in unfamiliar places. I got shook up real bad when that accident happened. BUT IT WAS STILL MY FAULT FOR MAKING A LEFT TURN BEFORE I WAS SURE ONCOMING TRAFFIC WOULD STOP. Having bad shit happen to you does not absolve you of responsibility for your actions. Now, being mugged? Being raped? Different kettle of fish. Those take two to tango and "raped someone" is a bigger action than "got drunk" or "walked down the wrong side street". The only way your rape analogy applies to this situation is the woman walked into a world famous bar for serial rapists, which the police warn everyone about, that she knew was in the neighborhood but hadn't bothered to check where. And even then, it doesn't work because these hikers entered Iran illegally. They did it by accident, yes, but "it was an accident" doesn't even fly as a criminal defense here in the States. They certainly didn't deserve espionage charges and they're probably not being treat well, but this doesn't absolve them of not paying attention to where the border was. And Shane - there ain't much the U.S. Government can do. Our two countries have spent the better part of the last forty years condemning eachother's actions at every turn. |
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xotan
Full Member
Posts: 112
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Post by xotan on Aug 24, 2011 7:43:10 GMT -5
Shane, there is such a thing as the duty of care. This implies that we all have a responsibilty for not putting ourselveves or others into a state of potential danger. To fail to honour this duty means that there is negligence at work. In a legal situation this can result in personal liability.
In the case of the hitchhikers it seems that they did not observe the duty of care and were negligent of their own safety and security. This much is clearly their fault. so they they have to accept responsibility for their subsequent situation. Given US/Iran political situation, good sense alone should have warned them that they were in danger of crossing an unmarked frontier at a point that was not recognised for entry into Iran. It was entirely stupid to take the chance. But they did. And they are now paying the consequence. And even if America did have representation in Tehran, their action would cost your country a lot of money in terms of diplomatic staff's time, trying to liberate them. The Middle East is not like America or Europe. it can be a dangerous place where innocence is not presumed. If one cannot appreciate that, then one should not go there. And crossing a frontier illegally is not regarded as accidental or innocent.
Sorry. But given the bother their selfish and uncaring attitude has caused, they should face a public reprimand when they do eventually get released - whiich I hope will be soon.
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Post by Ranger Joe on Aug 24, 2011 11:52:46 GMT -5
WE ARE CURRENTLY AT WAR WITH THIS COUNTRY. IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA TO GO VISITING IT. THEY WILL NOT HESITATE TO KILL YOU JUST FOR BEING AMERICANS. At war with whom? Technically the war against Iraq ended when the incumbent government was toppled. And I haven't heard anything about a declaration of war against Iran. We are still conducting combat operations in Iraq. Just because it's not a formal declaration, or that we declared victory, doesn't change the fact that active fire missions are underway. I feel bad for them, but seriously...You wouldn't catch me in that part of the world right now unless I was there on official business that involved an M4A2. |
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Post by Distind on Aug 24, 2011 17:00:16 GMT -5
I think you're all focusing on the wrong thing. You're victim-blaming. When you're hiking on the border of a nation which openly hates your nation, you're a victim of your own stupidity. Personally I'd take a one country buffer around nations looking to imprison me because I happen to be born here. |
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