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Post by scotsgit on Aug 29, 2011 17:13:58 GMT -5
The idea that the Catholic Church was in full command of the Christian world is as laughable as the idea that post-Galileo it somehow lost its power. Put quite simply, the point when the Catholic church lost its power is over a hundred years later with the Reformation. That's not quite true either. The Holy Roman Empire continued as an effective political entity until 1648 and officially existed until the 1800s. But medieval/early modern 'government' wasn't like what we'd now refer to as government. The emporer/pope had zero influence in nearly everyone's life. There were no police for instance. Taxation was very informal. All the central government did was raise armies (informally) and raise taxes (again, informally). Erm, I'm referring to the bits in the Reformation when the Protestant churches started forming, not the HRE, more the way Henry VIII removed England from the Catholic church or the religious wars in Italy which see the Vatican being stormed. |
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Post by Smurfette Principle on Aug 29, 2011 21:58:59 GMT -5
...what.  |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Aug 29, 2011 22:58:03 GMT -5
...what. I still can't look at that without seeing homoeroticism |
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Post by Thejebusfire on Aug 29, 2011 23:14:49 GMT -5
Please tell me they're trolling everyone...
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Post by Yla on Aug 30, 2011 5:22:27 GMT -5
The idea that the Catholic Church was in full command of the Christian world is as laughable as the idea that post-Galileo it somehow lost its power. Put quite simply, the point when the Catholic church lost its power is over a hundred years later with the Reformation. That's not quite true either. The Holy Roman Empire continued as an effective political entity until 1648 and officially existed until the 1800s. But medieval/early modern 'government' wasn't like what we'd now refer to as government. The emporer/pope had zero influence in nearly everyone's life. There were no police for instance. Taxation was very informal. All the central government did was raise armies (informally) and raise taxes (again, informally). Despite the name, the Holy Roman Empire had very little to do with the pope in Rome (except fight against him a lot in the 11th century). |
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Post by scotsgit on Aug 30, 2011 5:33:15 GMT -5
That's not quite true either. The Holy Roman Empire continued as an effective political entity until 1648 and officially existed until the 1800s. But medieval/early modern 'government' wasn't like what we'd now refer to as government. The emporer/pope had zero influence in nearly everyone's life. There were no police for instance. Taxation was very informal. All the central government did was raise armies (informally) and raise taxes (again, informally). Despite the name, the Holy Roman Empire had very little to do with the pope in Rome (except fight against him a lot in the 11th century). Hence the historians joke* of "It wasn't Holy, it wasn't Roman and it wasn't and Empire!" * After reading statistical reviews all day, you find pretty much anything funny. |
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Post by Meshakhad on Aug 30, 2011 13:18:04 GMT -5
This could be a good thing. I mean, the only thing your average born-again right-wing protestant hates more than atheism, paganism, and homosexuality is the Catholic church. They could end up waging a philosophical war with each other and we can start moving on while they're busy. Or nick their TV's. ;D ETA: Think about it, while they're ranting at the computer, we could sneak in behind and turn the house bare. Anyone for a new stereo?  You atheists think too small. Watch and learn. *steals the entire house* |
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Post by foolishwisdom on Aug 31, 2011 9:36:03 GMT -5
"False information leads to false ideas, and false ideas lead to illicit and immoral actions"
The irony: this can easily be applied to religion.
If I didn't know any better, I'd swear these fundies give off Freudian slips if you pay enough attention. Closeted atheists, maybe?
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Aug 31, 2011 14:50:20 GMT -5
"False information leads to false ideas, and false ideas lead to illicit and immoral actions" The irony: this can easily be applied to religion. If I didn't know any better, I'd swear these fundies give off Freudian slips if you pay enough attention. Closeted atheists, maybe? The problem is that these people ARE logical, reasonable, and sane, it's just that their starting position is based on off of a heavily faulty premise that has been debunked fifteen times over. It's like encountering a philosopher from Candyland while you come from reality. |
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Post by anti-nonsense on Sept 3, 2011 22:24:48 GMT -5
I'm going to say that if your arguments are based on premises that have been debunked 15 times over then you are not being logical, reasonable, or sane.
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Post by Vene on Sept 4, 2011 0:02:14 GMT -5
I'm going to say that if your arguments are based on premises that have been debunked 15 times over then you are not being logical, reasonable, or sane. Oh, it's sound logic and they are sane. Mostly because believing in a collective delusion is still sane. But, not reasonable. |
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Post by Jodie on Sept 4, 2011 4:54:39 GMT -5
Yes, religion is mostly backwards and destructive to civilization. Thank you for pointing out the obvious with that shiny mirror of yours.
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Post by scienceisgreen on Sept 5, 2011 11:25:01 GMT -5
Everyone points out Galileo's astronomical observations but there was also the fact he was preaching the think for yourself interpret the bible as you believe it rather than listening to the church authorities.
Either way these guys are backwater of the backwater- atleast the official church position is the apology to Galileo and acceptance of evolution
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Sept 5, 2011 13:23:04 GMT -5
Everyone points out Galileo's astronomical observations but there was also the fact he was preaching the think for yourself interpret the bible as you believe it rather than listening to the church authorities. Either way these guys are backwater of the backwater- atleast the official church position is the apology to Galileo and acceptance of evolution Granted, the apology to Galileo came centuries after his death, so I don't think it really counts as one. |
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Post by Yla on Sept 5, 2011 15:49:05 GMT -5
Granted, the apology to Galileo came centuries after his death, so I don't think it really counts as one. Better late than never. |
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