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Post by Amaranth on Sept 17, 2011 0:07:14 GMT -5
Or planted a nuclear device, blown up all of New York, and said terrorists did it. Considering we practically GAVE them dirty bomb ideas and locations. |
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Sept 17, 2011 0:27:14 GMT -5
Tangentially related is the fact that western interference led directly to Saddam Hussein becoming leader of Iraq, and played a role in Afghanistan turning into a Taliban hellhole (back when the Soviets were the Big Bad)... amongst other things.
Hindsight is 20/20 and all that -- some historic decisions may have made sense at the time -- but it's frustrating when so many people don't even realize that the west had a role in all of this. It wasn't just "them there brown people being barbaric". History should be analyzed and used to aid in future decisions, not ignored.
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Post by Amaranth on Sept 17, 2011 2:05:17 GMT -5
Which is why it pisses me off when the Repubs are all..."whep, wocha gonna do?"
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Sept 17, 2011 3:06:00 GMT -5
Must. Export. Democracy.
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Post by ltfred on Sept 17, 2011 9:44:05 GMT -5
and played a role in Afghanistan turning into a Taliban hellhole (back when the Soviets were the Big Bad) The Taliban only emerged after the Soviets left. US policymakers turned down a Soviet deal to form a broad-based parliament, excluding only the religious fanatics as the Americans felt those fanatics were a better bet for future Afghanistan than the secular socialists who'd always run the country before. Smart move. Then the Taliban emerged, and the US (defacto) recognised them as the government. Recognition had nothing at all to do with the civil war, which had ended years before. The US even tried to negotiate oil pipeline deals. |
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Post by SimSim on Sept 17, 2011 10:16:48 GMT -5
It was the Mujahideen that the US backed and armed during the Soviet invasion.
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Post by Amaranth on Sept 17, 2011 10:21:35 GMT -5
and played a role in Afghanistan turning into a Taliban hellhole (back when the Soviets were the Big Bad) The Taliban only emerged after the Soviets left. If only there were some form of cause and effect that could link the two.... |
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Post by ltfred on Sept 17, 2011 10:23:41 GMT -5
It was the Mujahideen that the US backed and armed during the Soviet invasion. Indeed; the US chose to back a fundamentalist crazy group rather than the secular independent socialists (Massoud and what have you) that they could have. Massoud went begging, while bin Laden stocked up on Stingers. Clever. And then of course, that backing for Islamic fundamentalist groups continued after the war. Firstly they turned down the offer of a unified transition parliament, directly leading to civil war, then they backed the Taliban for the critical first stage of that civil war. Brilliant. The crazy US fundamentalist Christians felt closer to the crazy Afghani fundamentalists than the sane moderate socialists. And, of course, Pakistan had an interest in backing a group that was also blowing away thousands of Indian troops in Kashmir. A policy which, cleverly, led to the radicalisation of politics in that country. The Taliban only emerged after the Soviets left. If only there were some form of cause and effect that could link the two.... Sure. The end of the civil war led to widespread chaos, and the Taliban emerged out of the chaos because they were disciplined and had a unifying ideology (and ruthless methods, and lots of guns). But 1) the US never backed the Taliban in the war and 2) the Taliban are a very modern group, barely two decades old. It's simply wrong to say that Afghanistan has 'always' been religiously fundamentalist and economically backward- socialism was more indigenous to Afghani politics pre-civil war than religious politics. |
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Sept 17, 2011 13:47:33 GMT -5
No one said that the Americans backed the Taliban during the war, nor that that Afghanistan has always been religiously fundamentalist.
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Post by ltfred on Sept 17, 2011 18:02:08 GMT -5
No one said that the Americans backed the Taliban during the war, nor that that Afghanistan has always been religiously fundamentalist. Not on THIS website. It's a fairly common theme in the Australian media, and in my family. But it's WRONG. |
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Post by dasfuchs on Sept 17, 2011 20:05:26 GMT -5
If memory serves right, I remember hearing reports even Osama didn't expect the buildings to fall. Worse case scenario he had figured was MAYBE the top would fall off.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Sept 17, 2011 21:02:03 GMT -5
No one said that the Americans backed the Taliban during the war, nor that that Afghanistan has always been religiously fundamentalist. Not on THIS website. It's a fairly common theme in the Australian media, and in my family. But it's WRONG. Aight. It read as though you thought that that was what I was saying. If memory serves right, I remember hearing reports even Osama didn't expect the buildings to fall. Worse case scenario he had figured was MAYBE the top would fall off. I've heard similar, though it's difficult to sort fact from fiction when it comes to that kind of stuff. |
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