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Post by Admiral Lithp on Sept 25, 2011 1:46:31 GMT -5
being suspended for speaking out of turn would be a bit much wouldn't it? Strictly from a perspective of school policy, no, because it can be interpreted as insubordination, which does carry the penalty of suspension. If you're asking for opinion, then yes, it is.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Sept 25, 2011 2:25:12 GMT -5
I would think that persistently speaking out of turn would warrant suspension.
Stating an opinion, as ass-backward as that opinion is, or speaking out of turn once does not warrant suspension.
Schools are there to educate and keep order. They are not there to be moral fountains. Deal with what crime persists in the school (such as harassment and assault, or as it's commonly played down as, bullying.) and leave the kids to come to their own conclusions on ethical matters.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Sept 25, 2011 2:42:38 GMT -5
But the point I keep trying to make is that school staff can be giant bastards, & this is at least technically a legitimate punishment.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Sept 25, 2011 2:46:00 GMT -5
But the point I keep trying to make is that school staff can be giant bastards, & this is at least technically a legitimate punishment. I should clarify - I'm not saying the boy didn't do anything worthy of getting suspended over. It's just that details are rather on the scanty side right now.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Sept 25, 2011 4:01:09 GMT -5
This is true. I am trying to keep 5 different viewpoints straight in my head:
1. The yagoff Fox wankers who are calling for the teacher to be fired & complaining about the gay agenda. 2. The skeptic that says the details are sketchy. 3. The technicalities of school policy. 4. The fact that the staff can be douches. 5. And what would actually constitute a violation.
It is resulting in a certain level of confusion.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Sept 25, 2011 4:07:29 GMT -5
Being a reasonable individual can cause confusion, yes.
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apedant
Full Member
Over himself, over his body and soul, the individual is sovereign--J S Mill.
Posts: 139
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Post by apedant on Sept 25, 2011 4:50:13 GMT -5
Being a reasonable individual can cause confusion, yes. This. This is why sometimes envy my still-Fundy family and long for the old certainty of evangelical religion, my-country-right-or-wrong and unbridled capitalism from before I sobered up (first literally and then metaphorically). It used to be so simple, wrong and right clearly defined, clear and precise dividing lines everywhere, separating the pure white from the pitch black. On the other hand it seems a lot better for my inner peace to accept the confusion and carry a lot less hatred inside. Back on topic I think one of the key things we need is a case history. Has this kid had warnings for homophobic bullying before? Does he consistently disrupt the class with his unsolicited opinions? Did he make one comment sotto-voce to his mate or did he yell it out Hitler-in- Downfall style? Had there perhaps been a general warning to the whole class ("next person to talk without raising their hand first will get suspended")? Suspension seems harsh for talking in class compared to my own school, but from what other people are saying in this thread you can see the huge range of school disciplinary codes even across states, let alone around the world.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Sept 25, 2011 5:32:11 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I doubt we'll ever get those details, because news reports never seem to be that thorough.
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Post by Vene on Sept 25, 2011 10:15:34 GMT -5
...leave the kids to come to their own conclusions on ethical matters. I seem to remember being told to share in school, this is an ethical matter, therefore, schools do not simply let students come to their own conclusions. I'm also pretty sure that a kid would get in trouble for saying women belong in the kitchen or that blacks belong in the cotton fields. Especially if said kid did it persistently.
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Post by kristine on Sept 25, 2011 13:18:14 GMT -5
I'm also pretty sure that a kid would get in trouble for saying women belong in the kitchen or that blacks belong in the cotton fields. Especially if said kid did it persistently. well, this is more like saying "I think women getting an education is wrong" or "I think race mixing is wrong" but I think your right - if this kid is very outspoken about fundie views the teacher could have just had enough, and this was the last straw.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Sept 25, 2011 15:47:37 GMT -5
...leave the kids to come to their own conclusions on ethical matters. I seem to remember being told to share in school, this is an ethical matter, therefore, schools do not simply let students come to their own conclusions. Yeah, being told to share in school has done a lot of good. Just look at all the sharing that's going on in America lately. But seriously, I do understand why it's present in schools, though there is the danger of a slippery slope. It's not that "x will lead to x" it's that "which x will intentionally jump on the slippery slope and ride it to its illogical conclusion?" Probably.
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Post by Vene on Sept 25, 2011 16:27:18 GMT -5
Whether or not it works is irrelevant, you claimed it is the place of schools to let people conclude what they please with respect to morals, but it is an example of schools making a moral statement. There are philosophies out there which claim sharing is immoral.
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Post by Mira on Sept 25, 2011 20:24:54 GMT -5
Whether or not it works is irrelevant, you claimed it is the place of schools to let people conclude what they please with respect to morals, but it is an example of schools making a moral statement. There are philosophies out there which claim sharing is immoral. Case in point.
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Post by Vene on Sept 25, 2011 21:07:14 GMT -5
Whether or not it works is irrelevant, you claimed it is the place of schools to let people conclude what they please with respect to morals, but it is an example of schools making a moral statement. There are philosophies out there which claim sharing is immoral. Case in point.Basically, anything inspired by ethical egoism or objectivism would fit.
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Post by anti-nonsense on Sept 26, 2011 5:17:49 GMT -5
the school system exists to teach kids how to get along in society. Basic ability to co-operate and "play nice with others" is generally considered necessary to get along in society (although sociopaths often get into high ranking executive positions anyway) thus schools try to teach sharing and other similar behaviors.
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