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Post by sylvana on Sept 28, 2011 3:08:54 GMT -5
I have mixed feelings about this one. If it is restricted to just trying to point out flaws in affirmative action, then it fails miserably. However, on the other hand it does raise a very general awareness of race and gender issues. Then again, I doubt anyone will really see it in that broad scope.
I feel that this event was poorly thought out, but at the same time, I feel that the people protesting it should really get over themselves. This is clearly an awareness stunt, a poor one, but one none the less. As such, one should not take such offense at what they are doing, and instead try and look at the message and meanings behind it all. Ideally instead of getting worked up one should think about things.
Things like, why are they trying to make this message, what message are they trying to make. What issues are involved here. why are minority groups charged less, is it because they are seen as poorer, or because they are favored? Both are possibilities and both should be looked at. Looking at why one or the other issue exists would also be worthwhile. All of these would do well to raise everyone's political awareness of race and gender issues.
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Post by Vene on Sept 28, 2011 8:42:49 GMT -5
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Post by cestlefun17 on Sept 28, 2011 9:01:38 GMT -5
It's a tricky issue because certain forms of affirmative action use race as a qualifier which is also racist. When you say "our culture's baseline racism" you are implying that everyone should be presumed guilty of racism, and that white people, men, etc. who harbor no prejudiced thoughts should have to suffer due to the attitudes of other people.
There is no one best answer. I support monitoring racial statistics and launching investigations only when the results are skewed towards a certain sector beyond any reasonable statistical margin. The company will then have to pull out its candidate files and show why the newly hired white men (for example) were more qualified than the black, Hispanic, female, etc. candidates.
A quota system of affirmative action (unconstitutional in the United States in the public sector) whereby a more qualified white man would be bumped just to ensure one spot to a lesser qualified black female is still racism and sexism. Racism and sexism doesn't become acceptable when it is directed at people who are white and male.
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Post by Vene on Sept 28, 2011 9:20:04 GMT -5
When you say "our culture's baseline racism" you are implying that everyone should be presumed guilty of racism, and that white people, men, etc. who harbor no prejudiced thoughts should have to suffer due to the attitudes of other people. Something tells me these people are very rare, according to this study maybe 20% of the population. And, you know what, if somebody actually is a member of the minority that doesn't have racial prejudice, then it will be very, very easy to fulfill any requirement for selecting minorities. The proposal you gave with the rest of you post might work, assuming there's periodic, unannounced, and random audits to determine if further investigation is needed. |
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Post by DrKilljoy on Sept 28, 2011 13:42:51 GMT -5
Am I the only one who noticed that a Native American woman could go to this bake sale and get infinite free baked goods?
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Post by MaybeNever on Sept 28, 2011 13:47:36 GMT -5
Am I the only one who noticed that a Native American woman could go to this bake sale and get infinite free baked goods? I noticed that too, and I immediately began thinking whether or not I knew any such people whom I could exploit for delicious brownies. It truly is the white man's burden. |
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Post by Bezron on Sept 28, 2011 14:36:23 GMT -5
Am I the only one who noticed that a Native American woman could go to this bake sale and get infinite free baked goods? I noticed that too, and I immediately began thinking whether or not I knew any such people whom I could exploit for delicious brownies. It truly is the white man's burden. #whitepeopleproblems #firstworldproblems |
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Post by Vene on Sept 28, 2011 14:38:06 GMT -5
I noticed that too, and I immediately began thinking whether or not I knew any such people whom I could exploit for delicious brownies. It truly is the white man's burden. #whitepeopleproblems #firstworldproblems |
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Post by Bezron on Sept 28, 2011 15:34:52 GMT -5
Good link, I'll be unproductive for the rest of the day
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Post by Wykked Wytch on Sept 28, 2011 16:52:35 GMT -5
I don't approve of affirmative action, but the bake sale was fucking stupid and doesn't even represent how affirmative action works.
I realize that racial biases in admissions does exist, but it's not going to be cured with what you think is an "opposite" racial bias that will "cancel it out". These turn out to be biases in themselves. You can't solve racial issues like this with political homeopathy ("like cures like").
If colleges care about making sure that race doesn't play a role in admissions, then they should just get rid of the race/gender/sexuality parts of their entrance forms. This way, the people looking over admissions only know about the applicants' qualifications and aren't influenced by any subconscious bias.
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Post by booley on Sept 28, 2011 16:56:52 GMT -5
The problem with that is that it does nothing to satirize affirmative action in admissions. If they actually wanted to satirize it, they should: 1) Make 100 brownies 2) Have a form available for people to fill out their name, race, gender, and a short essay about why they deserve a brownie 3) Rank the essays 4) Select the top 50 whites, top 25 blacks, and top 25 latinos 5) Inform each person that they have been selected for a brownie, and that the cost to each individual is a flat 50 cents. 6) If a selected person turns down the brownie, extend an offer to the next person on the list until all 100 brownies are sold You forgot the 10 brownies reserved for legacies-no matter how retarded they are. You know, if someone did that that might be a good counter to these racist bake sales (which have been going on for a while now.) |
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Post by gyeonghwa on Sept 28, 2011 17:10:15 GMT -5
I don't approve of affirmative action, but the bake sale was fucking stupid and doesn't even represent how affirmative action works. I realize that racial biases in admissions does exist, but it's not going to be cured with what you think is an "opposite" racial bias that will "cancel it out". These turn out to be biases in themselves. You can't solve racial issues like this with political homeopathy ("like cures like"). If colleges care about making sure that race doesn't play a role in admissions, then they should just get rid of the race/gender/sexuality parts of their entrance forms. This way, the people looking over admissions only know about the applicants' qualifications and aren't influenced by any subconscious bias. Erasing race from applications forms isn’t going to help because there are still of system of privileges that will undermine diversity (we already don't give racial minorities an equal footing to compete well against their white counterparts). The problem is that racial minorities will still be underrepresented in our Universities due to institutionalized racism in the k-12 school system (things like tracking students to certain jobs or giving schools in minority areas less funding) that will hold them back and the fact that they are financially at a disadvantage overall (due to institutionalize issues). Affirmative action isn't ideal, but until we actually give minorities an equal footing, it's needed. |
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Post by cestlefun17 on Sept 29, 2011 2:51:16 GMT -5
The problem with your reasoning is that it doesn't take into account social disparity within minority groups. Affirmative action tends to benefit members of minority groups who happen to be lucky to come from privileged families. A black student from an affluent family, who goes to a good private school, would benefit from racial affirmative action while a lower-class white student from the inner city, going to the types of schools with the lower funding you complain about, would not benefit.
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Post by gyeonghwa on Sept 29, 2011 2:58:26 GMT -5
The problem with your reasoning is that it doesn't take into account social disparity within minority groups. Affirmative action tends to benefit members of minority groups who happen to be lucky to come from privileged families. A black student from an affluent family, who goes to a good private school, would benefit from racial affirmative action while a lower-class white student from the inner city, going to the types of schools with the lower funding you complain about, would not benefit. I did say it wasn't ideal. And on top of that I'm aware affluence plays a great deal into the problem. Sheesh. I'd like to point out that I've seen affluent Asians go to college while non-affluent Asians struggle to have their ethnicities represented. (Compare numbers of Chinese Americans to numbers of Hmong Americans in college.) |
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Post by the sandman on Sept 29, 2011 7:43:16 GMT -5
I have taught for more than a decade now in a 95% black, inner-city school. My students are insulted by affirmative action. they consider it to be condescending and patronizing, essentially telling them that their own government believes they are not as good as white people and need special help and considerations to compete with whites.
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