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Post by Vene on Sept 29, 2011 9:35:47 GMT -5
I have taught for more than a decade now in a 95% black, inner-city school. My students are insulted by affirmative action. they consider it to be condescending and patronizing, essentially telling them that their own government believes they are not as good as white people and need special help and considerations to compete with whites. It's less that they're not as good and more that most people are racist to some level and won't offer them the same opportunities unless they are forced. If somebody has a better idea for how to address the issue I brought up earlier about a black man with no criminal record having the same chance of getting a job as a while man with a record I'd love to hear it. Or, hell, we can ask why it is that white graduates of college have half the unemployment rate of black graduates (link) |
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Post by verasthebrujah on Sept 29, 2011 22:05:09 GMT -5
I first came across this story on foxnews.com. A couple of days ago the headline for it was something along the lines of 'Racist Bake Sale Protests Racist Law,' but they seem to have changed it for some reason. Don't know why, that's pretty tame by their standard.
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Post by Thejebusfire on Sept 29, 2011 23:11:39 GMT -5
Am I the only one who noticed that a Native American woman could go to this bake sale and get infinite free baked goods? I noticed that too, I did have a granny that was half native american, but unfortuantly for me my family is not on the indian roll. |
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Post by ltfred on Sept 29, 2011 23:57:31 GMT -5
I have taught for more than a decade now in a 95% black, inner-city school. My students are insulted by affirmative action. they consider it to be condescending and patronizing, essentially telling them that their own government believes they are not as good as white people and need special help and considerations to compete with whites. That's a stupid belief, foisted upon the gullable by conservatives who have always and will forever oppose doing anything to help anyone that isn't themselves. Affirmative action doesn't say "you are worse, have a hand out". It says "you are equal and find it harder than a white person in the same position to get a job because of institutionalised racism. Here, let us forcibly end institutionalised racism and let you earn your own way." That's why it was a priority for the civil rights movement. Affirmative action does not give 'special consideration'*. It forces racists to give equal consideration. *Martin Luthor King supported special consideration for African-Americans anyway: the whites did something special to the negro, now they must do something special for him to clear up the direct consequences. |
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Post by MaybeNever on Sept 29, 2011 23:59:58 GMT -5
Or, hell, we can ask why it is that white graduates of college have half the unemployment rate of black graduates (link)Answer: more willing to put out. |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Sept 30, 2011 5:37:44 GMT -5
I have taught for more than a decade now in a 95% black, inner-city school. My students are insulted by affirmative action. they consider it to be condescending and patronizing, essentially telling them that their own government believes they are not as good as white people and need special help and considerations to compete with whites. It's more like it's because we're racist fucks, we're realizing that we're racist fucks, and we're trying to find some way to overcome it. |
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Post by cestlefun17 on Sept 30, 2011 6:18:58 GMT -5
The problem is it that it assumes EVERYBODY is racist and that EVERY decision is based on racism. Sometimes the heterosexual white Christian male really is the most qualified candidate for the job.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Sept 30, 2011 6:46:27 GMT -5
The problem is it that it assumes EVERYBODY is racist and that EVERY decision is based on racism. Sometimes the heterosexual white Christian male really is the most qualified candidate for the job. Yes, everybody (in America, at least) is racist to a degree. Even the people who are compensating for their racism are racist. Even I'm racist. It's a part of our culture. Even people who are aware of it find themselves contributing to invisible white privilege. The difference being is that we're trying to compensate for it, while the racists who are proud of their racism are busy fucking things up for everyone. |
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Post by ltfred on Sept 30, 2011 6:54:57 GMT -5
The problem is it that it assumes EVERYBODY is racist and that EVERY decision is based on racism. Sometimes the heterosexual white Christian male really is the most qualified candidate for the job. It assumes that, if fewer than a proportionate number of African-Americans are employed in a job, that is the result of racism. |
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Post by the sandman on Sept 30, 2011 9:23:54 GMT -5
I have taught for more than a decade now in a 95% black, inner-city school. My students are insulted by affirmative action. they consider it to be condescending and patronizing, essentially telling them that their own government believes they are not as good as white people and need special help and considerations to compete with whites. That's a stupid belief, foisted upon the gullable by conservatives who have always and will forever oppose doing anything to help anyone that isn't themselves. Affirmative action doesn't say "you are worse, have a hand out". It says "you are equal and find it harder than a white person in the same position to get a job because of institutionalised racism. Here, let us forcibly end institutionalised racism and let you earn your own way." That's why it was a priority for the civil rights movement. Affirmative action does not give 'special consideration'*. It forces racists to give equal consideration. *Martin Luthor King supported special consideration for African-Americans anyway: the whites did something special to the negro, now they must do something special for him to clear up the direct consequences. Never said I agreed with them 100%....just that that's what they think. |
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Post by Vene on Sept 30, 2011 9:49:31 GMT -5
The problem is it that it assumes EVERYBODY is racist and that EVERY decision is based on racism. Sometimes the heterosexual white Christian male really is the most qualified candidate for the job. This would only be a problem if we were saying you were required to only hire minorities, but it's a good thing that is not the case. And, as a link I gave earlier shows, the vast majority of the population is racist, which means that there will be at least one person with racial bias involved in hiring new people. Finally, if you really do have somebody with zero bias, this won't be a problem because they'd have no problems hiring the qualified minority candidate in the first place. |
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Post by cestlefun17 on Sept 30, 2011 9:52:23 GMT -5
This is all true, and it's worth noting that there are many different forms of "affirmative action." My issue is really with racial quotas (largely illegal in the United States) where to compensate for racist tendencies, companies and universities MUST hire x number of racial minorities, even if it means bumping out more qualified white men to fill a quota with lesser qualified minority females.
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Post by Vene on Sept 30, 2011 9:55:50 GMT -5
So, you're setting up a strawman to knock down? Very intellectual of you.
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Post by cestlefun17 on Oct 3, 2011 2:29:42 GMT -5
Can people please elaborate when they throw the "strawman" moniker around?? All I'm trying to do is specify what I'm referring to, so we can all operate on the same page. We're all throwing around the term "affirmative action" and making arguments for and against it, but no one has really specified what form of "affirmative action" we're talking about. They are many different kinds of policies that can be labelled "affirmative action," some more effective and more ethical than others.
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