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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Oct 14, 2011 19:23:37 GMT -5
Just to be clear, do you believe that they should keep their jobs?
The issue I have here is with the demonstrated lack of integrity, which isn't congruent to effective law enforcement. Planting drugs on an innocent person and effectively destroying his or her life is an extreme & outrageously selfish way to handle an unfair rule. While the quotas are certainly a factor in all of this, the character of the officers also plays a role; as such, they shouldn't be allowed to continue in a position of authority, even if the quotas are eliminated.
I recognize that the police are human beings & subject to all the associated flaws thereof, but like all careers, law enforcement requires certain qualifications, one of which happens to be a heightened degree of integrity. By all appearances, these guys don't meet that standard.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Oct 14, 2011 19:28:50 GMT -5
I am assuming, for the sake of simplicity, that this is something that was done explicitly because of the unusual circumstances, as opposed to an indicator of the person's general character. I can pretty easily see someone who is otherwise responsible getting swept away by a legitimate threat, especially when it comes from an authority higher than they.
Edit: In case it isn't clear, in that case, I would say yes.
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Post by RavynousHunter on Oct 14, 2011 21:05:48 GMT -5
THE PIGS JUST WANT TO ARREST YOU FOR BREATHING! POLICE STATE!11!1!eleventyone
Whoa...sorry, got possessed by WMDKitty there for a second. Now...what's this? Oh. Eh, I'll go take my blocks elsewhere.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Oct 14, 2011 23:17:48 GMT -5
THE PIGS JUST WANT TO ARREST YOU FOR BREATHING! POLICE STATE!11!1!eleventyone Whoa...sorry, got possessed by WMDKitty there for a second. Now...what's this? Oh. Eh, I'll go take my blocks elsewhere. Oh, I forgot about her.
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Post by RavynousHunter on Oct 14, 2011 23:18:28 GMT -5
Nevar forget.
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Post by askold on Oct 15, 2011 0:18:35 GMT -5
Wasn't Kitty the one who complained about when a cop accused her/him of smoking marijuana after seeing smoke coming out of his/her mouth? S/he made a long rant about how it could have been just a cigarette and then casually commented how the cop forgot to confisgate the drugs.
Then s/he began to panic about the court drug test that she was being forced to go to.
(I think kitty was a woman, but can't be sure.)
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Post by RavynousHunter on Oct 15, 2011 0:21:33 GMT -5
Yeah...Kitty was female, methinks. And, yeah, she was the one who made das thread.
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 15, 2011 2:12:41 GMT -5
Just to be clear, do you believe that they should keep their jobs? How can they keep their jobs when they are in prison? Surely knowingly fabricating false charges and evidence against someone you KNOW is innocent of them is the most open and shut case imaginable of any/all of the following; obstruction of justice, conspiracy, attempt to pervert the course of justice, wrongful prosecution, harrassment, assault, slander AND libel, and perjury. Off the top of my head. Seriously, if anyone who was NOT a police officer was found guilty of deliberately planting drugs and attempting to get that person arrested, they would be smacked with any and all of the above, and rightly so.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Oct 15, 2011 2:29:17 GMT -5
I never said that they shouldn't face criminal charges.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Oct 15, 2011 2:39:29 GMT -5
She is asking me, & the reason she is asking me is because I believe laws are theoretically enforced for some kind of practical end, not just as a way of saying, "Fuck you."
If your hypothetical normal person was coerced or forced into doing that, we'd also want to mitigate or aquit them.
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 15, 2011 2:46:38 GMT -5
Considering the severity of the crime, while mitigating factors must, of course, be taken into account, I think banning them from any form of law enforcement position for life as a bare minimum is reasonable. Quotas or not, nothing justifies doing that to an innocent person.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Oct 15, 2011 2:56:00 GMT -5
Let me ask you something:
If it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they would not reoffend, would your position remain the same? Why or why not?
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 15, 2011 3:27:10 GMT -5
Let me ask you something: If it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they would not reoffend, would your position remain the same? Why or why not? First of all, I don't know how you would prove that "beyond reasonable doubt", since the fact they've done it once (and, from the article, that such corrupt behaviour appears to be endemic, we aren't talking about a single isolated incident here) is, to me, a pretty serious indictment of the person's character... However, if, for the purposes of the argument, you COULD prove it, that they wouldn't do it again, no, I'd STILL say kick them off the force, and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. Once again, we grant police extraordinary powers that other citizens simply don't have, therefore, they MUST be held to a higher standard. Aside from anything else, do you think it is maybe, just maybe, possible that this culture where police can do no wrong, and infractions that would see you or I in prison for years is treated with a slap on the wrist for a police officer... just maybe is a contributing factor to cops acting like this in the first place? Final point, I do hate to invoke a Godwin, but its now an accepted fact of international law that "I was just following orders" is not a valid defence when it comes to the military and it's handling of citizens. Isn't "I was just trying to fill my quota" just as bad? Worse, in fact, since its such a pathetic excuse anyway? I don't think cops that fail to fill their quota get courtmartialed, for example.
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Post by ltfred on Oct 15, 2011 3:45:25 GMT -5
Let me ask you something: If it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they would not reoffend, would your position remain the same? Why or why not? If I could prove beyond reasonable doubt tha Ted Bundy would never reoffend, would you release him from prison?
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Oct 15, 2011 3:54:16 GMT -5
So...you believe in punishment for the sake of punishment. Disregard whether it makes things better, worse, or has no effect at all, as long as we get some payback?
Irrelevent, if true.
It shouldn't be, because it's been shown that you WILL follow orders like 90% of the time. I don't know where the fuck the rest of your stuff comes from. Of course they don't get court martialed, they aren't part of the military?
Yes. The entire fucking point of our justice system is supposed to be stopping criminal activity, not to be some weird replication of Dante's Inferno.
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