|
|
Post by sidburn on Nov 6, 2011 21:38:36 GMT -5
When did it start to be an unwritten rule that Christians must be conservative by default? I'm guessing that the complete and utter fixation the religious right has on abortion and homosexuality is a big part of it. Even so, I don't get where they got the idea that Jesus would've been a racist warmonger who loved the rich and hated the poor, especially since the Bible seems to state the exact opposite.
|
|
|
|
Post by ltfred on Nov 6, 2011 21:42:31 GMT -5
Paul's decision to conquer Christianity made it a conservative force.
|
|
|
|
Post by Art Vandelay on Nov 6, 2011 21:47:49 GMT -5
There are plenty of liberal Christians around. After all, the only thing necessary to qualify as Christian is the correct imaginary friend.
|
|
|
|
Post by lighthorseman on Nov 6, 2011 22:16:02 GMT -5
Don't mistake "Christian" for "fundiegelical neo-con".
There are liberal Christians, there are paleo-conservative (i.e. politically sensible) Christians, and there are the neocon Israel-at-al-costs screw-the-poor Declaration-of-Independence-should-be-last-book-of-the-Bible Christians. Its a big group.
|
|
|
|
Post by itachirumon on Nov 6, 2011 23:23:35 GMT -5
The "no true Scottsman" Christian fallacy only exists in the minds OF those rabid nutcases on the religious right. Believe me, there are Christians out here who don't buy into their bullshit. At all.
....Of course then I have to qualify that by saying I cringe when I self-identify as Christian and note that my beliefs are more in line with "spiritual but not religious" and "having faith with the rejection of dogma" which is just shorthand for I believe but I don't trust the bible farther than I can throw it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mira on Nov 6, 2011 23:29:48 GMT -5
Mainstream Christianity and the Republican Party became pretty firmly locked together during the conservative movements of the 1980s.
|
|
|
|
Post by VirtualStranger on Nov 6, 2011 23:39:47 GMT -5
When did it start to be an unwritten rule that Christians must be conservative by default? I'm guessing that the complete and utter fixation the religious right has on abortion and homosexuality is a big part of it. Even so, I don't get where they got the idea that Jesus would've been a racist warmonger who loved the rich and hated the poor, especially since the Bible seems to state the exact opposite. That's why. The theocrats have have had their grubby little hands around the neck of the republican party since the Reagan administration. |
|
|
|
Post by N. De Plume on Nov 6, 2011 23:46:29 GMT -5
What really bothers me are the organizations that insist on supporting almost every possible socially liberal thing except abortion, but when they try to influence your vote to the fullest extent their tax-exempt status allows, it is always to vote for the Conservative candidate, entirely on the abortion issue. And it is not like the Republicans have managed to do much against abortion, other than use it as a wedge in various bills.
“Yeah, love the poor. Help them. But they can go to hell as long as the pro-choice guy doesn’t get in.”
|
|
|
|
Post by gyeonghwa on Nov 7, 2011 2:05:47 GMT -5
The only thing that really qualifies you as a Christian is your own designation as such. There are gay churches, very liberal churches, very conservative churches and even some churches in the Andes that still practice indigenous religion.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jodie on Nov 7, 2011 4:17:05 GMT -5
There are probably just as many (if not more) rational and liberal Christians in the USA, but I am guessing that we hear more about the right leaning and fundamental Christians because of their tendencies to inject themselves into pollitics (where they don't belong IMHO) and be more vocal.
(edit: spelling)
|
|
|
|
Post by Haseen on Nov 7, 2011 8:21:33 GMT -5
Paul's decision to conquer Christianity made it a conservative force. I first read "force" as "farce", which still makes it a true statement. |
|
|
|
Post by the sandman on Nov 7, 2011 8:50:06 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the evangelical Christian community in the USA has been entirely consumed by the issues of homosexuality and abortion, two things that Jesus himself never bothered to mention in any way. (But he did specifically say "NO DIVORCES," which is odd since these same evangelicals are the group most likely to get divorced in America.)
In the end it has nothing to do with theology, doctrine, or even spirituality. It's about power. Both abortion and homosexuality are highly emotionally charged issues. Many people, out of sheer ignorance and irrational fear, feel that the existence of homosexuality is un-natural, a direct threat to the way they understand that things are supposed to work, and in some irrational, purely emotional way, a direct threat to their own safety, security, and self-identity. It's all bullshit, of course, but that doesn't matter. It's not a rational response, but an emotional one.
With abortion it's much simpler, of course. Once you begin to perceive a fetus as a child, all of the hardwired parenting instincts coded into our DNA by hundreds of thousands of years of evolutionary drive to perpetuate the species kicks in and rationality goes right out the window. Like with homosexuality, it's a purely emotional response.
(It is important to remember that this is why you can not have a discussion with a "pro-life" or anti-gay conservative. You may be presenting facts, evidence, and examples, but they will ignore all of it. You are arguing from logic, and they are arguing from emotion. You aren't even speaking the same language.)
The evangelical Christian churches in America learned a lesson from the Middle Ages Catholic Church (and, let's be frank, German National Socialism): if you want to control people, if you want people to march in lock-step beside (behind) you, you make them terrified of "The Other." You make them believe that other, strange, not-like-us people are threatening them. You make them believe that their very identity is at risk from outsiders who "hate" them merely for being who they are. You give them a boogeyman. And you make sure that boogeyman is not a group with enough political or social influence to defend themselves.
In the Middle Ages and WWII era Germany it was the Jews. Now with the evangelicals it's gays (or as they prefer, "fags") and pro-choicers (or, as they prefer, "sinning, fornicating women trying to murder their children").
In the end it has nothing to do with homosexuals or abortion. These are just convenient scapegoats to rally the troops against. As everyone knows, if you want to fight a war, the first thing you need is an enemy, then you use fear of the enemy to get your army, and then you use your army to seize power.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vene on Nov 7, 2011 10:32:44 GMT -5
Don't mistake "Christian" for "fundiegelical neo-con". There are liberal Christians, there are paleo-conservative (i.e. politically sensible) Christians, and there are the neocon Israel-at-al-costs screw-the-poor Declaration-of-Independence-should-be-last-book-of-the-Bible Christians. Its a big group. Are you trying to start an argument? |
|
|
|
Post by booley on Nov 7, 2011 11:06:28 GMT -5
same way you have to be Catholic to be Christian. And Protestant. And Mormon (even though there is some legitimate reason to think that Mormonism falls outside Christian doctrine).
Oh and if Protestant you have to be a specific kind of protestant.
Sorry to sound snarky but did we forget that most of the persecution done by christians through out history was to other christians? The first inquisition was to get rid of a certain branch of christianity.
Add to this the conservative penchant to label anyone not themselves as "not real americans" and this sort of thing is inevitable.
|
|
vesus
New Member
Posts: 22
|
Post by vesus on Nov 7, 2011 13:31:30 GMT -5
According to Jesus, you couldn't be a follower of his unless you discarded all your possessions and left your family. So I'm pretty sure that there are no Republicans who fit this mold...certainly no GOP politicians.
|
|
