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Post by gotpwnt on Mar 14, 2009 9:35:03 GMT -5
I think it's because...
"OBAMAS TEH ANTICHRIST!!!!!!!!!111!!!!11!"
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Post by m52nickerson on Mar 14, 2009 9:37:04 GMT -5
The fundies' idea of separation of church and state is that the church doesn't have to pay taxes. More like the state can't tell the church what to do, but the church can dictate to the state.
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Post by wisechild on Mar 14, 2009 10:10:04 GMT -5
When I was over at RR I saw a thread about how they love Bush and McCain because they are pro-life and they hate Obama because he is pro-choice. And that was it. They never mentioned any of the other policies the three men had. It was as if the only thing the RR posters could see, or wanted to see, was how Obama felt about abortion, and nothing else mattered. Yes a lot of times these Fundies don't know what the hell they're voting for. All they see is "anti-abortion" and "anti-gay" and they're on board. They are truly one or two issue voters. But you have to look at what they are being told day in and day out. All they listen to is Boss Limbaugh and other conservative talk radio shows, all they watch on tv as far as "news" goes is Faux News, and they listen to their pastors. They're so scared of even going outside of that conservative Fundie realm for fear of what they might find. It's kind of funny. Late in the primaries, Obama was having problems with swing-voter, Catholic Rust Belt Democrats and he made an off-record "cling to guns and religion" gaffe, in reference to that demographic, and the Fundies surely picked up on that one, echoed through the mouthpiece of Sarah Palin, over and over again. Because, they wanna be OUTRAGED!!!Fundies have been voting Republican for three decades. They don't cling, they are chained to two issues and maybe a fickle social "wild card" like prayer in schools, war on Christmas, pornography, or attempts at censoring and labeling media, etc. Many Fundies believe that if they vote for the "Pro-Life" candidate, and the nation follows, then God will bless the nation - economically. Some are having their minds blown. Others are following Limbaugh's claim of "an Obama Recession". And as I mentioned in my other posts, this won't play out like the 1990s, they may not gain too much traction this time around.
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Post by Aqualung on Mar 14, 2009 13:17:15 GMT -5
The fundies' idea of separation of church and state is that the church doesn't have to pay taxes. More like the state can't tell the church what to do, but the church can dictate to the state. That too.
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Post by Tiger on Mar 14, 2009 22:08:08 GMT -5
I take it it wasn't this bad under Clinton? I was too young to care about politics back then.
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Post by Thejebusfire on Mar 14, 2009 22:14:06 GMT -5
When I was over at RR I saw a thread about how they love Bush and McCain because they are pro-life and they hate Obama because he is pro-choice. And that was it. They never mentioned any of the other policies the three men had. It was as if the only thing the RR posters could see, or wanted to see, was how Obama felt about abortion, and nothing else mattered. Yes a lot of times these Fundies don't know what the hell they're voting for. All they see is "anti-abortion" and "anti-gay" and they're on board. They are truly one or two issue voters. But you have to look at what they are being told day in and day out. All they listen to is Boss Limbaugh and other conservative talk radio shows, all they watch on tv as far as "news" goes is Faux News, and they listen to their pastors. They're so scared of even going outside of that conservative Fundie realm for fear of what they might find. Yeap, pretty much.
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Post by wisechild on Mar 14, 2009 22:40:30 GMT -5
I take it it wasn't this bad under Clinton? I was too young to care about politics back then. It's too soon to tell, but Clinton unseated an incumbent, and Fundies were comfortable with the status quo, at the time. Also, I don't think Bill Clinton appreciated criticism. There were also sex scandals. These things empowered The Religious Right and Republicans. Made them feel righteous and persecuted. George W. Bush used that to his advantage when campaigning in 2000.
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Post by dasfuchs on Mar 15, 2009 10:33:25 GMT -5
Yes a lot of times these Fundies don't know what the hell they're voting for. All they see is "anti-abortion" and "anti-gay" and they're on board. They are truly one or two issue voters. But you have to look at what they are being told day in and day out. All they listen to is Boss Limbaugh and other conservative talk radio shows, all they watch on tv as far as "news" goes is Faux News, and they listen to their pastors. They're so scared of even going outside of that conservative Fundie realm for fear of what they might find. It's kind of funny. Late in the primaries, Obama was having problems with swing-voter, Catholic Rust Belt Democrats and he made an off-record "cling to guns and religion" gaffe, in reference to that demographic, and the Fundies surely picked up on that one, echoed through the mouthpiece of Sarah Palin, over and over again. Because, they wanna be OUTRAGED!!!what makes that even more funny is they whine and bitch all the time about how muslims are always outraged about one thing or another while their leaders try to get them to do the same. The only reason they haven't, i think, is because the western world isn't dominated politically and lawfully by religion
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Post by ironbite on Mar 15, 2009 11:02:57 GMT -5
It's kind of funny. Late in the primaries, Obama was having problems with swing-voter, Catholic Rust Belt Democrats and he made an off-record "cling to guns and religion" gaffe, in reference to that demographic, and the Fundies surely picked up on that one, echoed through the mouthpiece of Sarah Palin, over and over again. Because, they wanna be OUTRAGED!!!what makes that even more funny is they whine and bitch all the time about how muslims are always outraged about one thing or another while their leaders try to get them to do the same. The only reason they haven't, i think, is because the western world isn't dominated politically and lawfully by religion NOt that the fundies wouldn't be opposed to that.
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Post by Hades on Mar 15, 2009 11:09:41 GMT -5
When I was over at RR I saw a thread about how they love Bush and McCain because they are pro-life and they hate Obama because he is pro-choice. And that was it. They never mentioned any of the other policies the three men had. It was as if the only thing the RR posters could see, or wanted to see, was how Obama felt about abortion, and nothing else mattered. I know exactly what you mean. I have an uncle who is a hardcore Catholic. He votes purely on a candidates abortion and homosexual stance. If the candidate is pro-life and anti-gay, that's the candidate for him. He's a typical republican nutjob. Very religious, very anti-progress, not very bright, and owns a lot of guns. I also don't understand some of the people on RR. There's a thread about Obama forming ties with the middle east to smooth over our relations. And they're acting like he's betraying the country or something. O noez, forming bondz wit othar contrees is teh wurk of satanz!
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Post by MozMode on Mar 15, 2009 12:16:34 GMT -5
When I was over at RR I saw a thread about how they love Bush and McCain because they are pro-life and they hate Obama because he is pro-choice. And that was it. They never mentioned any of the other policies the three men had. It was as if the only thing the RR posters could see, or wanted to see, was how Obama felt about abortion, and nothing else mattered. I know exactly what you mean. I have an uncle who is a hardcore Catholic. He votes purely on a candidates abortion and homosexual stance. If the candidate is pro-life and anti-gay, that's the candidate for him. He's a typical republican nutjob. Very religious, very anti-progress, not very bright, and owns a lot of guns. I also don't understand some of the people on RR. There's a thread about Obama forming ties with the middle east to smooth over our relations. And they're acting like he's betraying the country or something. O noez, forming bondz wit othar contrees is teh wurk of satanz! Yeah anything that has to do with Obama & any kind of Muslim country automatically get's a thread at RR. And automatically gets them started on "Because he's a Muslim" or "He's a terrorist". It's the same bullshit over and over and over and we're going to have to hear it for the next 4 to 8 years, depending on if he gets a second term.
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Post by Tiger on Mar 15, 2009 13:18:11 GMT -5
I know exactly what you mean. I have an uncle who is a hardcore Catholic. He votes purely on a candidates abortion and homosexual stance. If the candidate is pro-life and anti-gay, that's the candidate for him. He's a typical republican nutjob. Very religious, very anti-progress, not very bright, and owns a lot of guns. I also don't understand some of the people on RR. There's a thread about Obama forming ties with the middle east to smooth over our relations. And they're acting like he's betraying the country or something. O noez, forming bondz wit othar contrees is teh wurk of satanz! Yeah anything that has to do with Obama & any kind of Muslim country automatically get's a thread at RR. And automatically gets them started on "Because he's a Muslim" or "He's a terrorist". It's the same bullshit over and over and over and we're going to have to hear it for the next 4 to 8 years, depending on if he gets a second term. "Have" to hear it? It's a privilege, not a burden. The word you're looking for is "get".
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Post by the sandman on Mar 15, 2009 18:25:09 GMT -5
It is stupid, but a lot of people who vote for the GOP are one issue voters. The GOP believes in outlawing abortions, no marriage for gay couples, a weak separation of church and state ect. So any candidate who is not a republican is evil by default. They will disagree with any of his policies just becasue of this. The fundies' idea of separation of church and state is that the church doesn't have to pay taxes. Not quite. The fundie idea of seperation of church and state can be expressed by a two part statement: 1: "Nowhere in the Constitution does it ever require a seperation between church and state!"
2: "And if it did, it only means that the government can't interfere with the church, not that the church can't interfere with the state!"
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Post by booley on Mar 16, 2009 10:14:36 GMT -5
One would think that he represents the things they're supposed to be in favor of - equality, compassion, peace etc. ? Hazard an educated guess, because their values are different. Take Equality. Fundies give lip service to it. Over time they even come to oppose certain forms of discrimination that progressives have fought against. Most fundies today do not support bringing back Jim Crow laws, for instance. But that's not because they beleive in equality per se. They stopped supporting racial segregation, for instance, but in large part because the vast majority of society stopped supporting it. Fundies tend to be RW authoritarian followers. Which means they need to be in a majority (even if only in their own minds). You can see this in their rhetoric, from their "moral majority" to how they still think most Americans believe as they do, regardless of the fact more people voted for Obama. But also Equality runs counter to thier values. Fundies hold to the idea that there is a natural order to the Universe, a Hierarchy . A great many conservatives do and so fundies, being conservative, fall right into that. In fact, hierarchies are a natural part of most religions, especially Christianity for most of it's history. Look at the art on medieval churches and you often see it. God is above man who is above animals ..ect. Everything and everybody is nice and neatly placed. The Hierarchies can change and get complicated. I should also note that while hierarchies are a part of conservatism, not all conservatives believe in hierarchies. (nor do all liberals Not believe in them) But fundies most certainly do believe in hierarchies. God is above everything. Man is above Woman. Straights are above Gays. Christians are above non-Believers. America is above al other nations. The rich are above the poor. Ect ect. Again the details may change but the idea that some people are better and must rule over another or be treated differently remains. This idea however is antithetical to the very concept of equality. Often I hear fundies say that that their rights are being taken away if they can't take away the rights of another (Gay marriage being an obvious example) I used to think this was just poor rhetoric but now I am sure they really do believe this. They really do believe they have a God given right to oppress others. As for compassion and peace, again we can look at thier conservative roots. I am sure someone will say I am being unfair to conservatism but I dont' think it's innaccurate to say that conservatism holds that the world is an innately dangerous place. Peace therefore is a pipe dream at best. Fundies rationalize this with their founder's teachings by saying there will be no peace until Jesus returns (and also conveniently giving them a reason to convert as many people as possible) As for "compassion" , what's scary is as far as they are concerned they are being compassionate. To fundies, when something bad happens to someone who deviated from what they consider the norm, the victim brought it upon himself. He was undisciplined or lazy or stupid. Therefore the only way to "help him" is to make sure he gets enough negative consequences that he will change his ways and do things the "right" way. Again, not all conservatives hold this idea. It's a conservative idea but not every conservative holds every conservative idea anymore then every Liberal agrees with one another. Nor do fundies think every bad thing that happens is punishment. But the examples where they do are egregious enough to really shed light onto their thinking. AIDS is God's punishment against Gays. Hurricanes are punishment for atheism and Mardi Gras. Contraception has to be hard to get so a mother will get AIDS and pass it on to her child. Welfare causes Poverty. I am sure we can all come up with even more examples. And while they seem illogical and repugnant to most of us , these things make perfect sense to the Fundie. In short, when it comes to peace, equality and compassion, what you think those words mean and what the what the fundies thinks they mean are totally different. And Obama is simply not "one of them". They know what he means by these things isn't what they mean.
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Post by CtraK on Mar 16, 2009 12:41:44 GMT -5
and nothing else mattered. Trust I seek, and I find in you, Everyday for us something new, Open mind for a different viewI'm using song lyrics as political commentary way too much nowadays.
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