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Post by Dragon Zachski on Sept 29, 2009 2:12:37 GMT -5
...
We're omnivores... we need meat as much as we need vegetables. And yes, we have sharp front teeth. Not as sharp as a lion's, but sharper than a donkey's.
Furthermore, the "unnatural death" thing is THE natural death for prey species. They are hunted and killed by carnivores all the time. Some big cats suffocate their prey to death. Komodo dragons start eating their prey ALIVE. I've seen toads swallow mice whole.
Oh, and bug-eating plants cause some of the slowest deaths imaginable. There's even a rodent-eating plant that drowns mice. Sorry, most slaughterhouses aren't cruel compared to MOTHER FUCKING NATURE.
Oh, and about the farming issue-- guess what, that's natural too. Guess what species farms animals for their byproducts? Why, ants! These creatures are smart enough to know that aphids make a nutritious by-product. They protect the aphids, but only because they get tasty stuff from them.
So really, stop with the 'unnatural' bullshit. Hell, just stop with the bullshit period. You ranting about meat-eaters and "speciesists" (lol made-up word) is just as bad as someone coming here to rant and rave about how evil atheists and non-Christians are. You are a veggie fundie, I recommend you wise up and stop ignoring evidence that disagrees with you. Skimming over your own evidence shows a serious lack of concern about anything you do.
Quite frankly, you piss me off. And your persecution complex here doesn't do anything to improve that.
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Post by Undecided on Sept 29, 2009 2:14:24 GMT -5
Everyone knows it's a fallacy, right?I... don't even really know what else to add. For what it's worth, Vene's right about the biology. There are a few things on this board where a few specific members have more knowledge than everyone else combined. This is one of those situations. But that point is irrelevant, because everyone seems to be missing the metapoint. Which is that natural doesn't mean ethical. Not to mention the pointlessness of trying to define what "natural" means with respect to a tool building species in the first place. Quoted for emphasis. Surely, the ultimate test of a diet ought to be how well it fulfills the organism's needs. In other words, as long as our nutritional requirements are met, we have great leeway in what we consume, and all this arguing is rather ridiculous.
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lightmelon
Junior Member
Don't swallow the seeds! You'll asplode!
Posts: 95
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Post by lightmelon on Sept 29, 2009 2:26:10 GMT -5
... We're omnivores... we need meat as much as we need vegetables. And yes, we have sharp front teeth. Not as sharp as a lion's, but sharper than a donkey's. Furthermore, the "unnatural death" thing is THE natural death for prey species. They are hunted and killed by carnivores all the time. Some big cats suffocate their prey to death. Komodo dragons start eating their prey ALIVE. I've seen toads swallow mice whole. Oh, and bug-eating plants cause some of the slowest deaths imaginable. There's even a rodent-eating plant that drowns mice. Sorry, most slaughterhouses aren't cruel compared to MOTHER FUCKING NATURE. Oh, and about the farming issue-- guess what, that's natural too. Guess what species farms animals for their byproducts? Why, ants! These creatures are smart enough to know that aphids make a nutritious by-product. They protect the aphids, but only because they get tasty stuff from them. So really, stop with the 'unnatural' bullshit. Hell, just stop with the bullshit period. You ranting about meat-eaters and "speciesists" (lol made-up word) is just as bad as someone coming here to rant and rave about how evil atheists and non-Christians are. You are a veggie fundie, I recommend you wise up and stop ignoring evidence that disagrees with you. Skimming over your own evidence shows a serious lack of concern about anything you do. Quite frankly, you piss me off. And your persecution complex here doesn't do anything to improve that. And what is your fucking problem? I didn't come to rant and rave about how bad Christians are- I was asked my opinion by a thread. Your example would be viable only if this were a hunting/fishing forum. Besides completely missing my point about why I oppose factory farms, you succeed completely at looking like an obnoxious jackass. You jumped into this conversation a little bit late too, it's over.
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Post by Oriet on Sept 29, 2009 3:30:17 GMT -5
*EDIT: And yeah, I read what he said. I still think that estrogen levels are increased from poultry and milk and it affects female health. If scientists prove me wrong someday, okay, I'm good with that, lol, but it hasn't been proved one way or another yet. Do you have any studies showing such a link? Seriously, if there is one I really want to know, as my body needs more oestrogen but I can't afford supplements. I would dearly love to know of simple ways to get some 17ß Estradiol into my system.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Sept 29, 2009 9:36:32 GMT -5
And what is your fucking problem? I didn't come to rant and rave about how bad Christians are- I was asked my opinion by a thread. Your example would be viable only if this were a hunting/fishing forum. Besides completely missing my point about why I oppose factory farms, you succeed completely at looking like an obnoxious jackass. You jumped into this conversation a little bit late too, it's over. So it's over even though it's still going on? Wow. And yes, you may have been asked an opinion, but by golly, being asked an opinion doesn't give you the right to act like you're being persecuted when you just attacked most of the forum for DARING to eat meat, even calling us stupid words like "speciesist" and such, spouting off lies as fact, and attacking the integrity of other forum members. And I've heard why you oppose factory farms. That's understandable. But then you oppose whole-range farming too. That's what I was talking about. And yes, I'm a jackass, but you should have known that you would attract jackasses when you make one of the most bigoted posts I've ever seen (emphasis: one of) on a forum filled with people you're bigoted against. My example stands because most of the people here eat meat, and most of the people here are atheists or some flavor of that. Although I will venture a guess and say that there are more meat eaters than atheists here.
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Post by Bezron on Sept 29, 2009 9:58:38 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm late to the party again. Here's my take on it: I don't give a flying fuck what you eat, and will probably try some of it (right off your plate if you aren't quick enough). But, the first time you tell me how disgusting something that I enjoy is, or how much things like meat eaters disgust you, will also be the time that you get to sit and watch while I eat a blue steak or tartar...very loudly and possibly messily. Am I an asshole, probably, but only when provoked To the OP (waaaaay back on page one), I actually have some good advice as I had a roommate who stopped being a veg after 15 years. You need to start by adding stock to your normal veg dishes. You will probably get the squirts, but it will pass. Then, try a small portion of fish. Do NOT jump right into beef or pork. After you have been eating chicken for a short time (I believe it was about a week for my roomie), have a burger. Try to make sure it's a decent cut, lean burger and put all the veggies on it (lettuce, tomatoes, onions if you like them), but nothing spicy.
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Post by rookie on Sept 29, 2009 14:06:13 GMT -5
Lightmelon, please try to read this post objectively. It may help explain why some of us here feel you may have been hostile. I personally don't see how being bred to die is the slightest bit humane. People in the line for capital punishment got there for a reason 90% of the time, maybe more. These creatures were born into slaughterhouses, chopped up just to supply selfish human demands of taste and habit. They never did anything wrong, but they never get one bit of a happy life nonetheless. If we did this to children from birth it would be considered worse than torture. But just because they are a different species than us, they are somehow less viable? That is disgusting. Fuck speciesists.. Is this what we reduce life to? Is there no respect for something feeling and being alive, just like we are? Never mind that our bodies are developed for plant based diets, as shown by science and obvious looks.We are easily able to get our nutritional needs through a balanced veggie diet. Even when humans were nomadic 90% of their diet was harvested, not hunted. And those hunters did it by hand, with crude weapons to make it even and had reverence for the things they killed, not just laughed and shrugged it off. These days we just go to the store, pick up a nicely wrapped package and give it no second thought to the suffering behind it. Never mind that meat and dairy cause more health problems than they are worth, especially in this day and age when even the free range and organic meats are pumped full of growth hormones and god knows what else. We're the only damn creatures on this planet that still drink milk after we are grown. That's not even natural. People are so desensitized to death and selfish killing of humans and animals alike no one even seems to care. Fucking disgusts me. If you've gone this long without eating meat, why turn back now? You must already have a dietary habit put into lace, why ruin that? Also, eating organic and free range shit isn't helping the environment. The amount of resources used to produce food and water to these animals before they slaughter them is huge. The rain forests can tell you that. I'm really sorry if this sounds harsh. It's just even the slightest bit of gratification for meat eaters and the brutal treatment of animals sickens me. There is no excuse except for immaturity, coldness, or laziness. Go ahead and call me crazy or whatever, fair play. I've been weak and ate cheese or whatever and beat myself up about it because I knew I was wrong. But at least I try and change this. That little rant you had made you sound like a teenage girl railing on about her issue du jour. Like some whiny emo kid driving a Chevy Suburban to a save the rain forest rally. Not well researched, not well thought out, but emotional as hell. First, you compare eating meat to capitol punishment. You call meat eaters selfish a couple times. You mention how, not just factory farming, but omnivorous humans "disgust" and "sicken" you. "And those hunters did it by hand, with crude weapons to make it even and had reverence for the things they killed, not just laughed and shrugged it off." That would be, for large game, fire and cliff. They would use the fire and drive the herd off a cliff. Then they would take what they needed and move on. Is that what you're calling reverence? It's something most of us would call "waste". Anyways, please read your post again with a fresh set of eyes.
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Post by RavynousHunter on Sept 29, 2009 14:34:44 GMT -5
Anyone quote mine off this topic...because if they haven't...I'm totally gonna do it. Some of the crap put here is mainpage worthy.
[ETA] OK, I took the initiative and submitted two I thought were mainpage worthy. Of course, don't let that stop you happy miners out there! Mine away!
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Post by discoberry on Sept 29, 2009 15:40:13 GMT -5
Meat love song/commerical
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Post by katz on Sept 29, 2009 19:27:11 GMT -5
To the OP (waaaaay back on page one), I actually have some good advice as I had a roommate who stopped being a veg after 15 years. You need to start by adding stock to your normal veg dishes. You will probably get the squirts, but it will pass. Then, try a small portion of fish. Do NOT jump right into beef or pork. After you have been eating chicken for a short time (I believe it was about a week for my roomie), have a burger. Try to make sure it's a decent cut, lean burger and put all the veggies on it (lettuce, tomatoes, onions if you like them), but nothing spicy. I'd probably actually start off with eating gelatin again if/when I do; it's more about mental preparing than anything. Jello seems like a good start; I've never had a Jello shooter, you know. Fish would be the next step, probably in a fish cake (mixed with potatoes and other veggies). The research I've done pretty consistently says you'll either have nothing or the worst possible gastric event of your life, and to start with very lean cuts. lightmelon has really highlighted why I want to quit; I've actually lied to some people saying my vegetarianism was for health reasons so I didn't have to be associated with loud-mouthed factless people like them.
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Post by discoberry on Sept 29, 2009 20:40:46 GMT -5
Skip the Jello and start off with baby: Its the other, other white meat
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lightmelon
Junior Member
Don't swallow the seeds! You'll asplode!
Posts: 95
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Post by lightmelon on Sept 29, 2009 21:17:55 GMT -5
1. In my original post, I compared factory farming to capital punishment because a post above me mentioned that animals in factory farms are treated better than some people on Death Row. I can't say I agree.
2. I believe some free range farms are bad because some apply the same hormones and mistreatment to animals that factory farms do. Some.
3. I already apologized for the harshness of my first post, in case you missed that. Being called a 'loudmouth' is pretty funny though, considering in person, trying to get me to talk at all is an adventure in itself.
4. Can this end now? Please?
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Post by Thejebusfire on Sept 29, 2009 21:45:29 GMT -5
Meat love song/commerical I know this is off topic, but that is one of the coolest commercials for a BBQ place I have ever seen.
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lightmelon
Junior Member
Don't swallow the seeds! You'll asplode!
Posts: 95
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Post by lightmelon on Sept 29, 2009 21:54:49 GMT -5
This is even more off topic, but thejebusfire, I love your avatar o.o
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Post by scienceisgreen on Sept 30, 2009 10:56:57 GMT -5
Meat, it's what's for dinner! and Lunch.... and maybe breakfast!
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