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Post by big_electron on Jan 21, 2011 13:59:45 GMT -5
I got a set of 14 DVD's, The Universe, planets, stars, galaxies, big bang, end of the universe
The one set I haven't yet watched, but intrigues me most is Ancient Aliens. The one segment I did watch talked about how a mason in California, using modern technology, could not make the stone cuts found in Egypt's pyramids. Elsewhere in the series, they discuss markings and stone arrangements made by the Incas and Aztecs.
While visiting mom and dad for Christmas, they threw out the idea that humans are descended from ET's. There are some problems in the theory of evolution, like the missing link, but they certainly don't believe literally the Biblical account of creation. For example, if Adam and Eve were the only humans on earth, then who did their sons mate with -- incest is not best. Another one is people living 900 years.
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Post by MaybeNever on Jan 21, 2011 15:09:49 GMT -5
Saying that aliens were involved in the pyramids because we don't know exactly how they were built is like saying that aliens were involved in Greek fire because we don't know exactly how it was made, or attended the G8 summit because we don't know exactly what was said. In such a case, aliens become nothing more than a proxy for goddidit.
The idea that humans are descended from aliens is even more absurd, given the overwhelming genetic similarities between humanity and all other life on Earth. Maybe aliens had a hand in our evolution - it's improbable, but it's conceivable. But if we're actually descendants, so is everything else on this planet.
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Post by big_electron on Jan 21, 2011 15:19:52 GMT -5
Evolutionists are hunting for the "missing link". Creationists are hunting for Noah's Ark. Proponents of extraterrestrial ancestry need to find evidence that aliens visited earth 2 million years ago, when humans first appeared.
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Post by MaybeNever on Jan 21, 2011 15:56:48 GMT -5
Evolutionists are certainly not hunting for "the missing link". There is no such thing, really, just increasingly fine gradations of species. More evidence is arising all the time, and sometimes we get clearer pictures of the parade of species that led to humanity, but if the claim is that we're actually descended from alien life we can pretty much throw that one out. It would be beyond obvious that that were the case for a variety of reasons.
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Post by big_electron on Jan 26, 2011 1:38:01 GMT -5
I think we've been visited by ET's, and they helped to shape our history. I still think we are another species of apes, but with special visits.
I could never figure out why the government would want to cover it up. I don't think that governments are deliberately trying to keep us in the dark about it, but make blanket denials to appease those members of the population that just have to believe that everything is under control, need someone to hold their hand, read them a bedtime story, reassure them that there are no monsters under the bed...
I now wonder if 21 December 2012 will be the day that ET's come down and reveal themselves at large, in such a way that is no longer subject to skepticism.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Jan 26, 2011 4:10:36 GMT -5
What do you have to say about the notion that the very first life on Earth may have been extraterrestrial in origin?
Are...are you serious?
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Post by Sigmaleph on Jan 26, 2011 14:43:26 GMT -5
I think we've been visited by ET's, and they helped to shape our history. I still think we are another species of apes, but with special visits. Why? What aspect of the history of humanity is best explained by aliens with a mysterious agenda?
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Post by Napoleon the Clown on Jan 26, 2011 15:02:04 GMT -5
I think we've been visited by ET's, and they helped to shape our history. I still think we are another species of apes, but with special visits. I could never figure out why the government would want to cover it up. I don't think that governments are deliberately trying to keep us in the dark about it, but make blanket denials to appease those members of the population that just have to believe that everything is under control, need someone to hold their hand, read them a bedtime story, reassure them that there are no monsters under the bed... I now wonder if 21 December 2012 will be the day that ET's come down and reveal themselves at large, in such a way that is no longer subject to skepticism. Please tell me you're joking.
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Post by big_electron on Jan 27, 2011 2:19:17 GMT -5
I think we've been visited by ET's, and they helped to shape our history. I still think we are another species of apes, but with special visits. I could never figure out why the government would want to cover it up. I don't think that governments are deliberately trying to keep us in the dark about it, but make blanket denials to appease those members of the population that just have to believe that everything is under control, need someone to hold their hand, read them a bedtime story, reassure them that there are no monsters under the bed... I now wonder if 21 December 2012 will be the day that ET's come down and reveal themselves at large, in such a way that is no longer subject to skepticism. Please tell me you're joking. I'd rather tell you about Nazca lines, Mohenjo Daro, Foo Fighters, the Baghdad Battery, Chichen Itza, just tell me where to start.
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Post by MaybeNever on Jan 27, 2011 2:38:32 GMT -5
What do you have to say about the notion that the very first life on Earth may have been extraterrestrial in origin? I'm perfectly willing to accept that life on Earth may have arisen from some extra-terrestrial origin, maybe from a meteor. This seems plausible, and if it's true we'll eventually find evidence. Finding alien life that uses DNA as its genetic molecule would hint at this, I think. I'd even be willing to accept that maybe advanced aliens started life on Earth. I'd expect some kind of evidence for the claim before we treat it seriously - it's implausible and unparsimonious at best, but it's at least feasible. What I'm not willing to accept is simply that aliens are responsible for humans but have nothing to do with the rest. Our genetic and physiological relationship to our fellow animals, and our place in the fossil record, makes our biology unexceptional. Saying that aliens made humans is like saying that Satan hid dinosaur bones to test Christians - it's grasping at straws to preserve some desirable fiction, even if it's a secular one.
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Post by big_electron on Jan 27, 2011 3:04:11 GMT -5
MaybeNeverI understand that Ancient Astronaut theory could be used in that manner, grasping at straws, and that it's still subject to skepticism. However, unlike Satan hiding dinosaur bones, this is a rational possibility. Maybe I'm wrong about some of the details, but I believe man has had out of this world assistance. I used to be of the mind that ET's exist, but had not visited Earth. It's natural to fear them, we don't know who they are or what they want, but I hope that on 12-21-12, they just come down for pizza, beer, and karaoke.
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Post by Napoleon the Clown on Jan 27, 2011 4:14:14 GMT -5
The bitch of aliens visiting Earth is that space is fucking HUGE. The nearest star outside our solar system that could support life as we know it is over four light years away. Interstellar travel is about like a trying to doggy paddle from the north pole to the south pole and back. Several thousand times. Times a billion. There are lots of things to kill you and the time it would take would be incredible. Interstellar travel while bringing along life forms requires making the known laws of physics your bitch.
Example: Say you have an average acceleration of 15 m/s2 (roughly 1.5g). Say you want to achieve a velocity of 150,000 km/s, roughly half the speed of light. (Keep in mind it would take an enormous amount of power to accelerate a ship with nine years worth of supplies, so this is an extremely generous velocity.)
You'd need to get up to 150,000,000 m/s. 150,000,000/15=10,000,000 seconds. It would take 115 and 3/4 days, approximately, to reach your target velocity. At this point you'll be going so fast that you have essentially no warning time before you hit any random object floating in space. At half the speed of light, a spec of dust will fuck you up hardcore.
You'd be spending years aboard this ship. Because of how much energy it takes to accelerate every kilogram of mass, the ship will be as small as possible. Most of the mass would be fuel. And you'd need a lot of it. Even with anti-matter reactions, you'll be losing half of it because while there is total energy conversion, half of that energy won't even interact with the ship.
And that's assuming there's space-faring life orbiting Alpha Centauri. Which is highly doubtful, as SETI hasn't heard a peep out of that area.
Physics says it'd be unimaginably difficult to travel to another solar system. Logic says that it would not be worth it. The resources needed to pull it off are gargantuan. A manned mission to Mars isn't even possible with today's technology, unless you're fine with landing corpses on Mars. Getting to a different solar system increases those challenges exponentially while adding in new ones. Lots of things could happen that would upset the position of the Earth just enough that the would-be visitors would miss us entirely.
Honestly, I'd put deities as being a bit more likely than Earth having been visited by extra-terrestrials. Both require everything we know about the laws of the universe to be wrong. Aliens would need motivation to send living beings that far. If they've got the technology to tell off physics, odds are they've got some damn fine AI that can get them everything they need to know without risking the lives of an entire crew.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Jan 27, 2011 7:45:52 GMT -5
MaybeNever: No, I get that there are different levels of "aliens are involved with us!" which is why I ask. I also may have been referring to simple lifeforms or materials on a space rock. Just wanted to see what you thought of that. I'm also wondering what kind of evidence could be left behind that would prove that. I don't know about DNA, though. How many genetic information carrying molecules could there be? You'd think some traits would be the same from planet to planet just because they work well. @pillsbury: How is it at all rational? All proponents of this theory have to point to is odd lines & artifacts which, while odd, either have perfectly rational explanations or aren't suggested to be made by advanced technology. The Baghdad Battery, for instance, may be a battery, but it uses period materials, & there is no evidence that it was actually used to power machinery. More likely hypotheses are that it was used for electroplating or religious worship. Were aliens to have visited Earth, the Baghdad Battery would be too primitive for them to use, & we didn't see a spike in human technology back then. Even assuming aliens were around back then, the most likely scenario of them having a hand in the battery's invention would be that humans made it to chuck at the freaky space monsters' heads. Seriously. I imagine a lot of these things are like crop circles. They may seem complex & difficult, so it's not readily apparent how they can be made by mundane processes, but then someone will come along & demonstrate how it's done. I actually saw an interesting documentary recently that showed it was quite possible that the Egyptians could have raised monuments with the aid of kites.
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Post by Hades on Jan 27, 2011 11:56:22 GMT -5
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Post by big_electron on Jan 27, 2011 14:49:03 GMT -5
I'll start with the Nazca lines. A perfectly paved runway, or launch gantry. Perfectly flat, perfectly straight lines. Other carved figures are of animals, but only recognizable while flying.
Now to ruins in Bolivia. Huge, several ton stones, carved with fitting grooves, all done by people without the technology of writing. How could illiterate people do something that is the envy of modern engineers?
Astronaut figurines have been found on opposite sides of earth, totally disconnected cultures. Tell me how that happens without talking about monkeys with typewriters.
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